Ear Candy metal in surround?

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Dusty Chalk

Dusty Chalk

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Messages
43
Are there any good ear candy metal or hard rock bands in surround? Like Rammstein, Stabbing Westward, Amorphis, Katatonia? I would love to hear that increased resolution in those multi-layered guitars, as that is the kind of music I listen to the most. Darkest Days (in HDCD) is one of my reference 16/44.1 recordings.

I already have In Absentia, and yes, that counts. Recommendations can be harder (In Flames?) or softer.
 
Dusty Chalk said:
Are there any good ear candy metal or hard rock bands in surround? Like Rammstein, Stabbing Westward, Amorphis, Katatonia? I would love to hear that increased resolution in those multi-layered guitars, as that is the kind of music I listen to the most. Darkest Days (in HDCD) is one of my reference 16/44.1 recordings.

I already have In Absentia, and yes, that counts. Recommendations can be harder (In Flames?) or softer.
Click to expand...
Well, for metal in surround, you need not look any further than Metallica's "Black Album" DVD-A. There is substantial debate over the merits of this title, but it ranks the top of the heap as far as I'm concerned, both in terms of hi-rez fidelity and surround presentation.

Another metal DVD-A surround title I picked up recently and quite enjoy is Nightwish - "Once". It offers some great good old fashioned melodic metal with some pretty spectacular dual guitar work. The lead vocalist is female but she really makes it work (probably the best female lead voc in a metal band I've heard, actually). The only downside is that this is a German import in PAL format. I can't access the visual elements on my player, but that's okay by me. The surround mix is very active and engaging. The fidelity is superb.
 
I liked "In Absentia" so well that I have ordered "Deadwing" but haven't heard it yet so I really can't recommend it. "The Downward Spiral" by Nine Inch Nails is another one I own that might be of interest, it is very good in my opinion. I ordered "With Teeth" by Nine Inch Nails but haven't listened to it either. The two Nine Inch Nails DualDiscs with DVD-Audio can be purchased for $5.99 each including shipping from yourmusic.com if you want to mess with that club.

Chris
 
"Deadwing" is even better than "In Absentia" for my money.
Not such an obvious ProTools mix, more low end there, not as harsh sounding at volume.
"Stupid Dream" is even better still. That album is awesome, it really is.
 
I also like Deadwing better. Sonically, it's definitely better, with less sibilance and a more natural high-end. Steven Wilson also had surround in mind when he did this one, as opposed to In Absentia, where all the fader moves and EQ settings, etc. had to be re-created. For Deadwing, the stereo and surround mixes were done back to back.

I didn't like NIN's "Downward Spiral." All the dynamic range of a 2X4. Tough to listen to (in a bad way).

I would love to hear the King Crimson studio catalog in hi-res surround. I think if Fripp and Belew were let loose, we would hear some amazing things there. One can dream...

There are parts of Tubular Bells 2003 that are quite heavy, with the heavy guitar section sounding almost "Krimsony" in its intensity.
 
The NIN one is tough & subtle as a 4x2 due to too much brickwall limiting, IMHO.
There is far too much of this starting to get into 5.1 mixes these days. It's just not funny any more - you should see some of the WAV files we get given for MLP & Authoring - look just like that 4x2 you mention.
Kills the dynamics, ruins the whole mix & makes it as bad as CD is.
And with 5 channels blasting this at you, it is exhausting & fatiguing to listen to. So un-necessary too - if louder is wanted, then turn up the freaking amplifier - it's what the beast was invented for!
 
Felix E. Martinez said:
I didn't like NIN's "Downward Spiral." All the dynamic range of a 2X4. Tough to listen to (in a bad way).
Click to expand...

Are you sure it isn't just the music that results in that feeling? If you are saying the recording is poorly done, I sure can't hear it. The sound is very bleak, grinding, heavy and the vocals sure don't soar but the recording doesn't seem to be limiting the intended range of the sound to me. I think it is all deliberate. I can sure see that some would find it tough to listen to though.

Chris
 
If it is still available, Joe Satriani's "Strange Beautiful Music" SACD contains some serious crunch and is a pretty active MC mix - made before Sony abandoned the format. Not sure if his version of "Sleepwalk" (w/Robert Fripp) qualifies as metal - but still some furious shredding going on overall.
 
Are you sure it isn't just the music that results in that feeling? If you are saying the recording is poorly done, I sure can't hear it. The sound is very bleak, grinding, heavy and the vocals sure don't soar but the recording doesn't seem to be limiting the intended range of the sound to me. I think it is all deliberate. I can sure see that some would find it tough to listen to though.
Click to expand...

It's dynamically limited to death, and it certainly is deliberate. This is unfortunately a common issue with CD releases in the past 10-12 years or so, and it's now creeping into "hi-res" surround titles. What's the point of 24-bit dynamic range when you're squashing the hell out of it?

Compare stuff off Downward Spiral with a track like, say, "Halo" off of Porcupine Tree's Deadwing. It's not apples to apples, but "Halo" was certainly inspired by NIN. While aggressively mastered, Deadwing retains a nice amount of dynamic range.

But...people think louder is better, so when one looks at a waveform from many of these new rock releases they look like a 2 X 4 piece of wood - a square wave with no transients.
 
Dusty Chalk said:
Are there any good ear candy metal or hard rock bands in surround? Like Rammstein, Stabbing Westward, Amorphis, Katatonia? I would love to hear that increased resolution in those multi-layered guitars, as that is the kind of music I listen to the most. Darkest Days (in HDCD) is one of my reference 16/44.1 recordings.

I already have In Absentia, and yes, that counts. Recommendations can be harder (In Flames?) or softer.
Click to expand...

I would say it's pretty limited... I've been searching too. :-(

Black Metal
You can check out a Dimmu Borgir "Death Cult Armageddon" in DVD-A. The sound is very powerfull (a lot better than the CD), but the surround mix is a bit disapointing, there's not much going on. But you notice some ambiances and orchestra (as far as a Black Metal kind of Orchestra goes!). But it's a most have if you like extreme music.

Metalcore
There is Lamb Of God "Wakes of the ashes" in DVD-A but I would suggest you to stay away from this one. There's some good stuff on the disk, but overall the mix is very disapointing.

NiN ''The Downwards Spiral''
Personnally I'm more into brutal extreme metal, but this one got one hell of a surround mix. One of the best IMO. I understand that it's masterized very compressed, but wow, artistically, Trent manage to make art out of the surround. I love the way he play with the 3D space, it's very brutal but it works. All my friends who heard this dropped their jaws on the floor, even those who don't like the band.

For now that's all I have.

But I'm working myself on an Experimental Death Metal album to be released in surround only. I've been working on this for a year. Should be out this summer 06.

:D CarcPazu :D
 
You want maximized...? Sheesh I finally got done checking out the Lips' Soft Bulletin. While I do not in any way endorse their mastering practices, they are playing with dynamic range to a degree. Just that you have loudness around 20%, then you go to about 90-99% and distorting. When you're at 24-bit, you have so much latitude re: steps of loudness, that it's just a shame that the entire range is not utilized, IMHO. With 16-bit audio, there are 65,536 possible levels. With every bit of greater resolution, the number of levels double. By the time we get to 24-bit, we actually have 16,777,216 levels. There's a beautiful forest of middle ground there that can be used for some amazing things...
 
TOPIC POLICE!

I believe this thread is for discussing Heavy Metal music in surround-sound. If you want to bitch about maximizing and other mastering BS, please start another thread!
 
Thanks for the recommendations on Nightwish and Dimmu Borgir -- I am already a fan of both those bands, and didn't realize both had come out with DVD-A's -- they are now high on my wishlist (I wonder if I can get them on Tower's sale this week?). I've already got Satch on my wishlist, but maybe I'll actually get around to picking those up.

Felix -- I completely disagree with you about NIN's production work. He does use distortion and maximization a lot, but on individual tracks ('tracks' as in 'of the original multitrack master tapes', not as in 'tracks on the album'); if you listen to the entire mix, there's actually some real subtlety going on. Listen, for example, to "Closer" -- there's that main theme pseudo-repeated in this weird, quiet distorted ghost of an echo at the beginning during the dry drumbeats -- he makes it sound like a pre-echo, but it's really purposeful. Listen to the reverb, it's very dry and quiet -- not maximized at all.
 
Keeping in mind Cai's warning, I have no issue whatsoever with NIN's production work. I think it's brilliant, ground-breaking stuff which is still being emulated today. It's a perfect example of the potential of "heavy" music in hi-res surround.
 
CarcPazu said:

There is Lamb Of God "Wakes of the ashes" in DVD-A but I would suggest you to stay away from this one. There's some good stuff on the disk, but overall the mix is very disapointing.
Click to expand...


I have the DualDisc of this with Dolby Digital surround but no DVD-A. If it is available in DVD-A, I would imagine it is not much better. My DualDisc is ok, but certainly not much.

Chris
 
A great alterna-metal title is available in the form of Mudvayne - "The End of All Things To Come". It's as heavy an album as you're ever going to find. It is dissapointing only in that the surround format is DualDisc DD, but given that, it is beyond cool with a heavy and creative surround mix. Highly recommended and not to be missed. I love this album.
 
Here's another clue for you all...

Motorhead - "Ace of Spades" DVD-A

"Remixed for surround from original multi-track recording session tapes"

Is this from Silverline/Sanctuary? YES
Is the blurb true? YES!
Is the fidelity and surround mix any good? YES!!

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. The unbelievable becomes belieavable with this hard-hitting discrete release from the perpetual no-hitter label. A metal masterpiece in spectacular surround. Miracles do happen!!!

Boo-yah. :smokin
 
Cai Campbell said:
Here's another clue for you all...

Motorhead - "Ace of Spades" DVD-A

"Remixed for surround from original multi-track recording session tapes"

Is this from Silverline/Sanctuary? YES
Is the blurb true? YES!
Is the fidelity and surround mix any good? YES!!
Click to expand...

I thought about getting this one. I think you convinced me.
But I'm more a Black Sabbath fan. I wish they would make Black Sabbath, Paranoid and Master of Reality in surround. That would be a must buy.

CarcPazu
 
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