Quad LP/Tape Poll Steely Dan: Pretzel Logic [QS/Q8]

fredblue said:

"I know things about pigeons, Lily"

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In the Line of Fire, I LOVE that movie! Space Cowboys is excellent too!

Clint Eastwood said:

In the Line of Fire, I LOVE that movie! Space Cowboys is excellent too!

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it is immense! he is sensational in it too (and that's saying something going up against Malkovich on top form!). I love a lot of Clint's later stuff.. ITLOF, Unforgiven, Gran Torino = the man is just an out and out screen legend.

I'm sticking to my position that the QS LP isn't double stereo; my advice is to crank it as much as you can, it expands beautifully, at least to my ears. In doing so it seems to make the differences more apparent, the side walls fill out and the corners emerge a little more. Even better - stand up in the sweet spot and turn to face the rears, the sound field is different, not as discretely as say 'Can't...' but it's there. Sometimes it's the difference between a double tracked lead guitar split front and back, harder to isolate. Or woodwind split FR/RR. I also went back to the stereo version few times as that works well to cleanse your ear-palette before listening again. It's a 6 for the mix, even after all that, but the album is a 10, hands down so this finishes as an 8 for me. Totally appreciate this title polarizes opinion.

inquadwetrust said:

I'm sticking to my position that the QS LP isn't double stereo; my advice is to crank it as much as you can, it expands beautifully, at least to my ears. In doing so it seems to make the differences more apparent, the side walls fill out and the corners emerge a little more. Even better - stand up in the sweet spot and turn to face the rears, the sound field is different, not as discretely as say 'Can't...' but it's there. Sometimes it's the difference between a double tracked lead guitar split front and back, harder to isolate. Or woodwind split FR/RR. I also went back to the stereo version few times as that works well to cleanse your ear-palette before listening again. It's a 6 for the mix, even after all that, but the album is a 10, hands down so this finishes as an 8 for me. Totally appreciate this title polarizes opinion.

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It definitely isn't double stereo. But ABC was often rather conservative with their quad mixes. I believe they were going more for envelopment rather than lots of discrete localizations. QS is fully capable of delivering very discrete-like performance, but ABC didn't go crazy with that. I like the mix. For this album, it works well.

jaybird100 said:

It definitely isn't double stereo. But ABC was often rather conservative with their quad mixes. I believe they were going more for envelopment rather than lots of discrete localizations. QS is fully capable of delivering very discrete-like performance, but ABC didn't go crazy with that. I like the mix. For this album, it works well.

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I definitely agree with inquadwetrust and jaybird, with the LP decoded through my Sansui's QS decoder this is definitely not double stereo. That said, it's nowhere as discrete as Can't Buy A Thrill (probably my favorite quad Steely Dan LP.) Still the quad mix opens up this album nicely. So, based on excellent content and a cool, but not amazing, quad mix, I give this one an 8.

always felt this one was pretty much double stereo and with a lopsided stereo image at that (lead vocals seemed shifted off to one side somewhat, I think it was the right side of the room?) but recently had a bit of a "wtf!?" moment with this one when recording in the decoded QS.

checking out the individual channels in Audacity (I can't speak for the Q8 version) as I often do for fun with these SQ and QS things (sometimes it's painful.!) it looked - and sounded - like the Front Left and Rear Left may be the REARS (more muted lead vocal in each channel) and Front Right and Rear Right = the FRONTS (lead vocal more prominent in each of those channels).

Try swapping the cables out on your QS decoder to that effect next time you spin this one and fingers crossed I haven't screwed up or something and you'll see what I mean. Suddenly Fagen's vocals snapped into focus in the Centre Front and the whole mix made sense (and I'm now convinced it's a remix).. I couldn't believe it!

fredblue said:

checking out the individual channels in Audacity (I can't speak for the Q8 version) as I often do for fun with these SQ and QS things (sometimes it's painful.!) it looked - and sounded - like the Front Left and Rear Left may be the REARS (more muted lead vocal in each channel) and Front Right and Rear Right = the FRONTS (lead vocal more prominent in each of those channels).

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Heheh. Somebody mentioned that (in regards to the Q8 though) about 8 years ago on post #6. Dunno who it was.... smart fellow though, very handsome as well.

Q-Eight said:

Heheh. Somebody mentioned that (in regards to the Q8 though) about 8 years ago on post #6. Dunno who it was.... smart fellow though, very handsome as well.

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hehe, yeah I saw that ..and that super smart, ultra handsome devil said they swapped the right front with the right back on the Q8, 8 years ago.. I'm suggesting something different in 2017 (on the QS record so far only too, not tried a Q8 conversion) basically the left front and left rear are the rear pair and the right front & right rear are the fronts I think, on the QS! weirdzz..

So, if I turn my body 90 degrees to my East/right, then I get it as intended.?

John Svensson said:

So, if I turn my body 90 degrees to my East/right, then I get it as intended.?

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YES!! :yikes

Never thought of it like that! :worthy

(Personal room layout prohibits doing a 90 degree turn so I have to fiddle with the RCA's..)

Let me know when you've give it a go!

fredblue said:

YES!! :yikes

Never thought of it like that! :worthy

(Personal room layout prohibits doing a 90 degree turn so I have to fiddle with the RCA's..)

Let me know when you've give it a go!

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So, in other words, Adam, you have to twist your body 90 degrees like a PRETZEL in order to hear the album as it should be heard....so where's the LOGIC in THAT?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4C615334AD9FB11769404C615334AD9FB&FORM=VRDGAR

1970's American Quality Control at it's finest.

I think there are MORE GRT-reproduced cartridges with improper channels than there are cartridges with correct layouts.

I just got the QS encoded ABC Command Quadraphonic LP of this one. I was a bit worried about double stereo and poor detail level on this one after reading about it, but after listening to it today I can say that this doesn't sound anything like double stereo to me. It's not an aggressive mix. There is not much audial ping pong or direct corner placements of instruments it seems. It moves and blends the instruments rather delicately I think! It sounds... musical, in that very comfortable way Steely Dan always sounds.

As for the detail level, this pressing does not sound bad at all. It doesn't sound limited in any way, perhaps except for the inner most grooves, as records do in variable degree. It sounds way better in this regard than my QS Countdown to Ecstacy, which isn't showing much wear either. But then again, the original stereo versions I've heard of that one kinda suffered a little from the same thing.

What may have helped my experience with this one, compared to some who's had a bad experience could be down to cartridge/stylus, speaker setup and the decoder itself I suppose.
I listen on a vintage Pickering XV-15, with a new Jico Shibata profiled stylus. I suppose this may affect the initial level of crosstalk quite a bit, as well as really get the detail out, and bypass former wear from conical and elliptical styli.
I also listen in a 180 degree environment rather than a 360 corner setup. This helps fill some black holes between speakers, so blends between speakers could achieve more of a "pinpointed location" I suppose.
Finally, I listen on a fully refurbished Sansui QSD-2 ((with blend resistors enabled) Also, thanks guys, for the help with schematics and parts. You know who you are.)

Anyways, I gave this an 8. And that is just because I have "Can't Buy a Thrill" incoming, and I have high hopes for that one!

Best,
Klas

It feels like I write a variation on this post at least once a year. The 50th--fiftieth!!--anniversary of Pretzel Logic has come and gone. (February 20th, 1974. Happy Birthday, Walter; the world still misses you.) And Elliot Scheiner's completed 5.1 mix still moulders in Universal's vaults. I fear the monkey in Lucian Grainge's soul.
https://www.inthestudio.net/online-...gic-50th-donald-fagen-the-late-walter-becker/