Grass Roots Greatest question...

I spoke too soon. I'm playing the LP as we speak, and "Sooner or Later" is yet, another version. The main difference being Dennis Provisor's "soul shouting" at the end.

I can only assume that Dennis did multiple takes of the ending and that they all exist on the multitracks.

Version 1: (H) Cartridge - Has (a) take of soul shouting (Stereo Version)
Version 2: (C) Cartridge - Has BOTH (a) & (b) takes of soul shouting
QS LP : features (b) version of soul shouting

How can I tell? The Grass Roots have been my favorites since I learned to talk. I have all the LPs, all the 45's (including the rare ones) both Q8's, the QS LP, the stereo 8 track of 16 Greatest and two Muntz 4 tracks. I know these songs by heart.

The version in the QS LP is the one featured in the GRT Sampler?

The Grass Roots catalog is a fascinating one, with alternate mixes and longer fades all over the place, and not just on quad vinyl or Q8. It would take considerable work to catalog all the variations, not to mention the original mono single and Lp mixes(they had, IIRC, three mono Lp's).

ED

Ed Bishop said:

The Grass Roots catalog is a fascinating one, with alternate mixes and longer fades all over the place, and not just on quad vinyl or Q8. It would take considerable work to catalog all the variations, not to mention the original mono single and Lp mixes(they had, IIRC, three mono Lp's).

ED

Click to expand...

Yup.
"Where were you" their first LP - Mono/Stereo
"Let's Live for Today" 2nd LP - Mono/Stereo
"Feelings" 3rd LP - Mono/Stereo (hard to find mono version though!)

The Singles have different mixes, and are mostly mono up to the hits from '71!
The Stereo singles I have sound pretty much identical to the stereo LP cuts.
The promo's I could write a book about.

Quadzilla said:

I thought you were dead on Sandy. They were so lame!

Click to expand...

On the contrary, "Let's Live For Today" is not only true but as profound in its way as "Positively 4th Street," "You Keep Me Hangin' On" or "In My Life." That's pretty solid company to keep....

ED

I've come to a conclusion after multiple listenings to these Q8's (and their conversions in my car)

C7023-50107 is mixed from the final master mix tape.

7023-50107H comes from an earlier generation multi-track tape

Why do I say this?

The "C" cartridge is not very discrete in instrument placement. It seems to have "Front" instruments (in mono) and "Rear" instruments (in mono). Lead Vocals are up front for the most part with accompanying vocals in the rear. The occasional overdub (handclap, tambourine, cowbell) eminates from any FL, FR, RL, RR.

The "H" cartridge has very discrete instrument placement. Guitars in Front Left, Organs Front Right, Bass x4, Drums Rear, Vocals Front. But it seems to be missing final overdubs!! No cowbell on 'Sooner or Later' as well as some additional soul shouting vocals. No Handclap on 'Heaven Knows'. No double-tracked vocals on 'Temptation Eyes'....

Not very noticeable stuff, but differences nonetheless!

Unfortunately, unless we get in contact with the people who originally set up this album and or did the actual mixing - we'll never know what the deal is.

Former members of the Grass Roots themselves have been no help. Memories have become foggy as to the actual recording sessions, mixing sessions, etc.
Dennis Provisor himself sent me an email stating he has absolutely NO recollection of recording an alternate organ solo to Temptation Eyes, yet one does exist on this tape.

Well, I've gotten my hands on a QS of this, and now I'm questioning channel placement for everything.

What has me particularly confused at the moment is "Live For Today"

At first glace, the QS appears to be the H mix. But then earlier in this thread, it is mentioned that "Sooner or Later" has a different vocal part from the H mix, which would confirm it is a unique mix. Although, it does seem to parallel the H mix.

So, I figured a good reference point would be the count in "Live For Today", since that would give a clear channel id between the 2 mixes. What alarmed me right away was that the QS doesn't go in a circle, while the H mix does. If going by the numbers, the rights would need to be swapped on the QS in order to make the count match the H mix.

But, what jumped out at me is that, the H mix clearly has the lead vocal in the front, while the QS has the vocal centered. Bleedthrough on the decode? I don't think so, usually a front vocal is cancelled out pretty clearly on the software decodes. So, this is clearly a different mix. But...did they intend to make the count not circle like in the H mix? Or, is this a channel error on the QS?

Well, the thing I noticed is, if I move it around to match the count on the H mix, I then get diagonals, which I dislike, since diagonals usually implies an error. Which then brings to my attention that, diagonals also exist on the H mix, which now brings the channel placement on there into question, since this is on a GRT tape, which you could never rely on the channel placement for....

Aarrgghhh...

Bah, back to some Chicago SQ stuff, I'll sort this out another time.