Lou Dorren on his CD-4 45rpm record, and FM Quadraplex

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...The first CD-4 Discrete 45 entitled "Bean Whistle Rag". was released on SoundBird Records. Lou Dorren

Quad 45's from SoundBird Records i.e. Brad Miller's label though is not all THAT surprising that it would exist. The late Brad Miller was always an envelope pusher, so any one of his camp, as everybody has already said, has plenty of fans here.

Like Dick Schory and his Ovation label. A number of Ovation titles have excerpts on quad-45, and then there's all the odd-music tracks on the backs of the 45 RPM 7-inch CD-4, SQ and QS calibration discs.

Good to have you aboard.
 
Dear Lou:
We had you master a few 24 Track Tapes from the late Leo DeGar Kulka's archives in 1995 and later in 1997...We have a tape that we would like to have transferred to CD and Copied from a quarter-inch reel...Please e-mail me and let us know your earliest time available where we could listen to this tape and decide if we would like to have it transferred at your price,please let me know as i would like to have this done asap...In Quad and Stereo..Many Thanks...M.H.Briggs/Magical Records PO Box 272 Ross,CA 94957-0272
 
HI Jon,

I recorded, Mixed and Mastered the first CD-4 Discrete 45 Titled "Bean Whistle Rag". It was released on SoundBird Records and I still Have some.

Lou Dorren

hey Lou
would love to have a copy..any for sale
am lookin forward to your cd-4 demodulator
I hope I'm not too late.
Phil
 
Who still had a working CD-4 mastering unit in 1986? That's pretty late in the game.

RE: Brad Miller
In college four of us in the recording and engineering depts got to fly to Reno from Hollywood and take a masterclass at Brad Miller's place in Incline Village.

I guess by then he was pretty sick, because he weighed about 300 or 350. That was alright for us though, we were all big guys too so it was a kind of validation.

So we sat there for a week absorbing all kinds of cool tidbits of information and pigging out on the most delicious and horrible-for-you food you could ever imagine.

He even dragged out his old ``portable'' 4 track that he used to go record nature sounds in the 70's. What a behemoth.

It reminded me of what would later come to be known as ``career camp'' except those are 3-6 mos long.
 
Who still had a working CD-4 mastering unit in 1986? That's pretty late in the game.

RE: Brad Miller
In college four of us in the recording and engineering depts got to fly to Reno from Hollywood and take a masterclass at Brad Miller's place in Incline Village.

I guess by then he was pretty sick, because he weighed about 300 or 350. That was alright for us though, we were all big guys too so it was a kind of validation.

So we sat there for a week absorbing all kinds of cool tidbits of information and pigging out on the most delicious and horrible-for-you food you could ever imagine.

He even dragged out his old ``portable'' 4 track that he used to go record nature sounds in the 70's. What a behemoth.

It reminded me of what would later come to be known as ``career camp'' except those are 3-6 mos long.

Horsepoop!!! Brad never weighed that much and he was fine then. Brain cancer found and dead in 6 months.
 
Horsepoop!!! Brad never weighed that much and he was fine then. Brain cancer found and dead in 6 months.

Whatever.

My old recording professor we flew up with has pictures of all of us with Brad in his studio in the late 90's.
He's chubby in the pictures, the same as us.
They're hanging in the wall-case in the main corridor in the TV and film pavilion at L.A. City College in Hollywood.
We had two weeks of spring break, and went up right before NAB convention, then came back and went to NAB for the 2nd week.
 
I think CD-4 would have worked better at a turntable speed of 78 rpm.

CD is the most finnicky system I ever saw. The following variable affected it:

- Cable capacitance
- Arm resonance
- Tracking error
- Antiskate adjustment (CD-4 required a bit more than stereo, due to the drag from the carrier).
- Vertical angle was extremely critical
- Dust and record wear are quite detrimental. That's where the term "sandpaper quad" came from.

I have that same Elvis album as my only CD-4 album.
 
CD is the most finnicky system I ever saw. The following variable affected it:

Agreed. But the fact is, it did work.
And quite well, under the best conditions.
The Japanese proved that with their late 70's releases.

The point is, no technology works that great out of the gate.
In fact, they mostly suck (how about those first-generation laserdiscs? or nuclear reactors?).
It usually takes a decade or more of real-world use for one to get tweaked enough to really be practical.
(My third-generation iPhone 3Gs, one of the most popular electronic items ever, has a phone and antenna that are barely usable.)

In America, record companies apparently wouldn't take seriously the requirements for top-quality vinyl and mastering, sabotaging it from the beginning.
By the late 70's -- only a few years after introduction -- the Japanese had a clearly practical, working system.
What we'll never know is how much improvement we'd have seen with another ten years of development (including, we now know, much better transistors).

My guess? We would eventually have had discrete disc system with fidelity comparable to average stereo releases -- unrecognizable from its primitive beginnings.
 
Agreed. But the fact is, it did work and quite well, under the best conditions....We would eventually have had discrete disc system with fidelity comparable to average stereo releases -- unrecognizable from its primitive beginnings.

Absolutely.

Ortofon would have eventually finalized their CD-4/DMM cutterhead design, we'd have had new generations of CD-4 modulators from which to cut, and if recording had developed on its' original curve, CD's in the form of PCM discs would have co-existed along with CD-4/DMM from reading the piece I found about how Telefunken-Decca GmbH was going to try an experiment returning to CD-4 but marrying it with DMM technology and the 2/3rds mastering speed.

According to the piece, they were going to try mastering their experimental CD-4/DMM titles with an Neumann DMM head at 33 RPM for playback at 45 RPM around the same time as the 45-RPM audiophile box sets were coming out which spread a normal 45-minute LP across 3 or 4-discs and expand the audiophile LP market.

Well, it didn't happen, but supposedly the test pressings are still around for it somewhere, however I wouldn't imagine even at 2/3rds speed that the Neumann DMM head would have been up to the task of mastering CD-4. DMM or not, a Neumann DMM wouldn't be sufficient, but the Ortofon DMM head could do it with a little tweaking.

Supposedly, at the headquarters in Scandanavia, Ortofon still has the original design drawings and specs on how they would have built a CD-4/DMM head if they would have ever built one, and maybe there's even a prototype built.

Would be interesting to find out for sure, but in the research I've been doing pretty much stops there since everybody's pretty much gone from that era.

And even though RCA invented DMM for cutting CED videodiscs, they got it schmoozed away from them for a pretty useless technology tradeoff and then got it sold BACK to them as an ``audiophile'' process.

So, it's no wonder you barely see any American DMM pressings from RCA. They mostly farmed `em out to the normal DMM houses of the period, Europadisk, Masterdisk, Sterling Sound, etc. so that most RCA DMM titles were cut in Germany.

I have a GREAT copy of Chess: The Musical on Record which shows you CAN cut a 90-100 uM groove or deeper into DMM same as a lacquer and not get a lot of noise.
Half the problem with the normal, shallower 50-70 uM cuts in a normal DMM was you couldn't get the volume of a lacquer.

But listen to the DMM of Chess next to a lacquer-mastered version (even a German one if you want) and you'll see why people think DMM would have been the perfect marriage partner for CD-4 with JVC SuperVinyl given the time it needed to develop the technology.
 
HI Jon,

I recorded, Mixed and Mastered the first CD-4 Discrete 45 Titled "Bean Whistle Rag". It was released on SoundBird Records and I still Have some.

Lou Dorren

Considering this simple statement begat so much intense and technical discussion, my request gets back to where it all started. Can you scan the labels (front & back) of this 45 and post for us? I'm trying to assemble a definitive list of quad 45's & EP's, and need as much detail as I can get, like catalog ID, titles for both sides, etc. Thanks again for sharing so much with the forum.
 
DanielTheGreat, Send me your email and I will send you a PDF of the QSI5022 Data sheet.

Hi Lou,

I'm also interested in this datasheet. I've sent you a private message, i would be glad if you can check it out.

Greetings,
Flavio.
 
I think CD-4 would have worked better at a turntable speed of 78 rpm.

CD-4 is the most finicky system I ever saw. The following variable affected it:

- Cable capacitance
- Arm resonance
- Tracking error
- Anti-skate adjustment (CD-4 required a bit more than stereo, due to the drag from the carrier).
- Vertical angle was extremely critical
- Dust and record wear are quite detrimental. That's where the term "sandpaper quad" came from.

yeah - so to hell with all that ship.
 
CD4 isnt any more difficult to set up than a normal phono stereo set up. It is just a different (special) cartridge being played through a demodulator . I dont find it finiky at all. I have over 100 quadradiscs that play perfectly and all of them were previously used!! So much for sandpaper quad and abnormal wear THEORIES!! How good does a properly set up CD4 system sound?? If I played a quad reel and the same CD4 record for you in a blindfold test, you couldnt tell the difference!!! Compare the price of Quad reels these days as compared to the price (and selection) of quadradiscs. IMO QUADRADISCS ARE THE BEST BARGAIN (AND SECRET) IN THE AUDIOPHILE WORLD!!! Very few people have a properly operating demodulator and cd4 cartridge so they are unable to experience all that CD4 has to offer. Lou Dorren knows this and is going prove it with his new CD4 demodulator.. As for all the other turntable problems listed above, my vpi Scout table takes care of all the enginering stuff so I dont have to worry about it...CD4 is the greatest!!! Here is a good comparison between CD4 and QS (or SQ)..it is like the difference between......... Mozart and Soliare... CD4 is the real thing and everything else an imposter. My hats off to the engineers who developed CD4.
 
Hi Lou,
Have you finished my Technics SH-400 yet?

Wow, lou dorren still hasnt replied or explained to you why he hasn't returned your equipment? The fact that you have to ask in a public forum means he isn't responding to your emails.
This is a bad sign. I sure won't be sending him money for a new demodulator until he clears this up.
 
Just got off the phone with Lou Dorren (He called me), with an update on the demodulator. It appears the cartridges are now in hand from Germany, and he will be shipping me the test demodulator in the next few weeks. As soon as I get it, you can be sure I'll be posting details and pictures.

While I had him on the phone, I asked him about 'ress4278''s concerns about a demodulator that he shipped to him for repair. It seems that Lou had repaired two units for him without charge a year or so ago, and one of those units had stopped working properly after 6 months. Lou asked him to send it back and said he'd work on it when he had some free time. Again, no fee was involved, and no time period was specified. The unit is now on its way back to him.

Lou Dorren is not your average audio repair tech and anything he does, including the new demodulator, is done in his spare time. There is an old saying that one should not "look a gift horse in the mouth", even if the horse is busy doing other stuff!
 
HI GUIS-This is a Japanese Sony FM rds unit with FM input data cinch jack on the back ,and to be coupled with had a single jack on the back for "FM Quad",of receivers
i know,in europe is called rds`in usa-Radio Broadcast Data System (RBDS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System
and in japan is` darc`
image.html
http://bluess.cocolog-nifty.com/labo/2008/05/sony_ctds100.html
 
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