Nine Inch Nails Simultaneous Adv Res DualDisc

kstuart · Mar 24, 2005

Transcribed from the Official Nine Inch Nails site, which paranoically posts all news as a GIF file so it can't be cut and pasted (sheesh!):

3-23-05:

Nine Inch Nails: " With Teeth "

In Stores 5-3-05 on standard CD, DualDisc and Vinyl.

The DualDisc contains the standard album as well as Advanced Resolution Stereo and 5.1 Surround Sound mixed by James Brown and Trent Reznor. It will play on both DVD-Audio players and Standard DVD players.

GaryW · Mar 25, 2005

Hope this sparks a trend...

mandel · Mar 25, 2005

After the success of The Downward Spiral on SACD its a shame that this album is only seeing a Dualdisc release. Just have to hold out and hope that it appears on SACD in the future then...

JonUrban · Mar 25, 2005

At least the DVD side is DVD-A!

GaryW · Mar 25, 2005

JonUrban said:
At least the DVD side is DVD-A!

Exactly. I have no complaints with the Downward Spiral dvd-a.

Kris Deering · Mar 26, 2005

mandel said:
After the success of The Downward Spiral on SACD its a shame that this album is only seeing a Dualdisc release. Just have to hold out and hope that it appears on SACD in the future then...

Maybe the SA-CD wasn't much of a success after all. Universal has been a big supporter of SA-CD in the past so maybe sales of the Dualdisc were a lot better then the SA-CD and they just went the DualDisc route this time. Wouldn't suprise me. The SA-CD was a bit steep in price in comparison. I bought both but only because I am a NIN fanatic. But at almost twice the cost, I didn't see any reason why the SA-CD provided any value at all. I think the price would have been justified only if the entire second disc was in surround.

natiahs · Mar 28, 2005

I'm pleased the labels seem to uniting behind DualDisk. While I wish they'd include higher resolution audio, it is nice to see new releases streaming out on a regular basis. Hopefully the days of dueling formats are behind us (for this technology, at least).

Natiahs

axnyslie · May 3, 2005

Best Buy will have it for only $11.99
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7165426&type=product&id=1428454

Hollow Man · May 4, 2005

The DVD-A side won't play the high resolution audio in my Pionner 563A (I get picture, but no sound). Finally called Pioneer to try to get the infamous firmware upgrade. Someone else already called with the same problem. Waiting for a service center to get back in contact with me.

The surround mix sounded decent in DD5.1, but not NEARLY as good as my SACD of Downward Spiral (in high resolution surround). And unlike my SACD, this DualDisc doesn't support downmixing (I'm missing the center and sub).

-HM

mandel · May 4, 2005

natiahs said:
I'm pleased the labels seem to uniting behind DualDisk. While I wish they'd include higher resolution audio, it is nice to see new releases streaming out on a regular basis. Hopefully the days of dueling formats are behind us (for this technology, at least).

Natiahs

There is a limit to the resolution that they can put on a Dualdisc as it only has one DVD layer (usually 24/48 for 5.1). A single format will help multichannel audio immensely, just a shame it has to be this stupid format. For the sake of a couple of pence more of pressing costs Double Disc is a much better solution than Dualdisc which doesn't play in all players and is a stupid both-sided waste.

Plus if this takes off what do you think the chances are of then a couple of years later blue-ray/HDDVD making serious inroads into the audio market. We could be stuck with 24/48 as 'hi-res' for quite some time. I for one am refusing to buy any of the damnable things.

Kris Deering · May 4, 2005

Dualdisc isn't limited to 24/48 for 5.1?? There are lots of 96/24 5.1 releases from both Warner and Silverline. In fact Warner has a release with 192/24 stereo and 96/24 5.1 on the same disc.

Universal has been capping their releases for an unknown reason, but it is not space. Rumor has it they have had MLP encoder issues.

jimby · May 4, 2005

Kris Deering said:
Dualdisc isn't limited to 24/48 for 5.1?? There are lots of 96/24 5.1 releases from both Warner and Silverline. In fact Warner has a release with 192/24 stereo and 96/24 5.1 on the same disc.

Universal has been capping their releases for an unknown reason, but it is not space. Rumor has it they have had MLP encoder issues.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? NIN-With Teeth Dual Disc takes up 3.88 GB on the DVD side. Given disc overhead and margin of error, a 96/24 5.1 mix just won't fit. Another 2 GBs of space would be needed. That's why the surround is at 48/24. Do the math.

JonUrban · May 4, 2005

Doesn't MLP have something to do with getting more on the disc?

BananaSlug · May 4, 2005

I think they're saying that it isn't compressed with MLP, so 96/24 wouldn't fit on a dual disc. If it were compressed it would fit. As far as I understand, 5.1 at 96/24 exceeds the max. data transfer rate of the DVD-A spec so HAS to be compressed anyways.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will pop in here and explain it better...

Bob Romano · May 5, 2005

BananaSlug said:
I think they're saying that it isn't compressed with MLP, so 96/24 wouldn't fit on a dual disc. If it were compressed it would fit. As far as I understand, 5.1 at 96/24 exceeds the max. data transfer rate of the DVD-A spec so HAS to be compressed anyways.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will pop in here and explain it better...

The DVD-A is definitely compressed with MLP (the display reads PPCM when playing back).

jimby · May 5, 2005

BananaSlug said:
I think they're saying that it isn't compressed with MLP, so 96/24 wouldn't fit on a dual disc. If it were compressed it would fit. As far as I understand, 5.1 at 96/24 exceeds the max. data transfer rate of the DVD-A spec so HAS to be compressed anyways.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will pop in here and explain it better...

96/24-bit surround won't fit on the disc, whether it's compressed with MLP or not. Uncompressed, it would require an additional 2 GB. Compressed with MLP, it would still need more than an additional GB. On the With Teeth disc there is less than half a GB of free space available.

mandel · May 5, 2005

jimby said:
Where do you guys come up with this stuff? NIN-With Teeth Dual Disc takes up 3.88 GB on the DVD side. Given disc overhead and margin of error, a 96/24 5.1 mix just won't fit. Another 2 GBs of space would be needed. That's why the surround is at 48/24. Do the math.

Ah actual logic rather than something somebody pulled out of their arse...

[I really must apologise for this remark, sadly it seems Kris is no longer around to apologise to directly. May 2005 wasn't the best time for me but that is no excuse. I easily could have just explained my point better rather than resorting to imflammatory accusations...]

Kris Deering said:
"Dualdisc isn't limited to 24/48 for 5.1?? There are lots of 96/24 5.1 releases from both Warner and Silverline. In fact Warner has a release with 192/24 stereo and 96/24 5.1 on the same disc."

Are you sure this was a Dualdisc not a DVD-A?! and how long was this album?

Kris Deering · May 9, 2005

I would hope being the Senior DVD and Video Editor for a Home Theater and Audio Publication that I would know the difference between standard DVD-A and Dualdisc. I only owned about the first 3 DVD-A players on the market over 5 years ago and was part of the test market for Dualdisc. And never mind the whole flipper style gives it away as well as the massive DUALDISC logo on the case. But I guess someone could have missed those things.

I just tested a handful of Warner Dualdisc releases.

Grateful Dead 96/24 5.1 and 96/24 2.0 DVD-A tracks
Simple Plan 88.2/24 5.1 and 88.2/16 2.0 DVD-A tracks
Trapt 48/24 5.1 and 2.0 tracks
The Donnas 96/24 5.1 and 96/24 2.0 tracks
Rob Thomas 96/24 5.1 track and LPCM 2.0 track that wouldn't display frequency and bit depth on my player (Denon DVD-5910).

So 96/24 is quite capable on Dualdisc on both the 5.1 and 2.0 tracks. I am sure overall album length contributes though. And yes these all had Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks for non-DVD A players.

Guess I wasn't pulling it out of my arse afterall was I?? Or can someone here prove otherwise?? I'd love to see it.

JonUrban · May 10, 2005

Kris has the credentials, folks! No brag, just fact!

mandel · May 10, 2005

Kris Deering said:
I would hope being the Senior DVD and Video Editor for a Home Theater and Audio Publication that I would know the difference between standard DVD-A and Dualdisc. I only owned about the first 3 DVD-A players on the market over 5 years ago and was part of the test market for Dualdisc. And never mind the whole flipper style gives it away as well as the massive DUALDISC logo on the case. But I guess someone could have missed those things.

I just tested a handful of Warner Dualdisc releases.

Grateful Dead 96/24 5.1 and 96/24 2.0 DVD-A tracks
Simple Plan 88.2/24 5.1 and 88.2/16 2.0 DVD-A tracks
Trapt 48/24 5.1 and 2.0 tracks
The Donnas 96/24 5.1 and 96/24 2.0 tracks
Rob Thomas 96/24 5.1 track and LPCM 2.0 track that wouldn't display frequency and bit depth on my player (Denon DVD-5910).

So 96/24 is quite capable on Dualdisc on both the 5.1 and 2.0 tracks. I am sure overall album length contributes though. And yes these all had Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks for non-DVD A players.

Guess I wasn't pulling it out of my arse afterall was I?? Or can someone here prove otherwise?? I'd love to see it.

Just out of interest, what are the lengths of those albums? A quick look at Amazon shows Grateful dead at 10 tracks, Simple Plan at 11 tracks and Rob Thomas at 12 tracks.

Nine Inch Nails Simultaneous Adv Res DualDisc

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