More Layoffs at Rhino??

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It's worth mentioning that the three main on-line retailers of higher end recordings all have their own labels so in some cases they do manufacture, license, design artwork etc.

Acoustic Sounds=Analogue Productions & APO
Music Direct=Mobile Fidelity
Elusive Disc=Audio Wave

You are really comparing apples to oranges here - not that you are entirely wrong but the ecomomy of scale in this case works against the bigger company. Not that all are, but most SACD's retail at above $24.99 and in many cases $30 and above. Rhino's marketplace is traditional retail - where those pricepoints are certain death. Analogue can make 500 SACD's mark them up well over 100% and turn a profit. That business model does not exist even in the remotest sense at the major label level. Also it should be noted that all SACD is manufactured overseas where minimums are less and print is far less expensive than in US - even with exchange rates and freight factored in. Forget vinyl in the argument - even if it doubled or tripled it's current sales figures in the upcoming years it would still represent an insignifcant blip on the screen - profitable however for those that have a targeted consumer base - like the audiophile suppliers you mention.

Yes the major labels are inept and certainly should share significantly in the blame for the current state of affairs. This however has less to do with the mechanics of making and distributing records and more to do with the pressures of being owned by mulitnational corporations who care far less about art than commerce. Unfortunately, when you make crappy art commerce suffers. The real tragedy here is that the people who are passionate the most about the music at these companies are the ones who will be losing their gigs.
 
Around here it's Newbury Comics, but even they have a dwindling catalog of stock titles from a few years ago.

I loved Newbury Comics when I was in Boston area. I used to buy 8 out of 10 of my music from there. Now since I am mostly buying SACD/DVD-A, I shop mostly online for lack of a good store nearby.
 
The main thing is, I want all those tapes sitting in record companies vaults digitized at 24/96 and preserved for all time...


Well definitely the digitization of catalogs has occurred - just not at 24/96 - unless of course you are talking about specialty audiophile labels. The major labels have pretty much digitized their catalogues as full CDDP images which are basically exact copies of the original CD master - most likely at 16/44.
 
Well definitely the digitization of catalogs has occurred - just not at 24/96 - unless of course you are talking about specialty audiophile labels. The major labels have pretty much digitized their catalogues as full CDDP images which are basically exact copies of the original CD master - most likely at 16/44.

That's cool. I do wonder though about the hundreds, if not thousands of other recordings mono/stereo/ Quadraphonic and original multi-track master tapes. Certainly if they have done this already with historical Quadraphonic material we might have seen some more releases by now. Let's hope it's not too late for all the many miles of tape there in everyone's vaults before they turn to dust..
 
I'm starting to feel the same way.

I certainly like having digital copies of my physical media for portability, but when it comes down to it, I still can't shake the "need" to have the physical product, complete with jewel case (and digipak if I have to, ugh), inserts, lyrics and release notes, and album art. That has always been part of the thrill of collecting and listening to music and movies. I realize I am a dying breed, but I can't bring myself to embrace buying digitally. I am going to hold on to the physical medium as long as I can. Thereafter, I too will be forced into this digital realm I suppose. But, until that day, I'm going down with a fight.
 
I certainly like having digital copies of my physical media for portability, but when it comes down to it, I still can't shake the "need" to have the physical product, complete with jewel case (and digipak if I have to, ugh), inserts, lyrics and release notes, and album art. That has always been part of the thrill of collecting and listening to music and movies. I realize I am a dying breed, but I can't bring myself to embrace buying digitally. I am going to hold on to the physical medium as long as I can. Thereafter, I too will be forced into this digital realm I suppose. But, until that day, I'm going down with a fight.

Well I don't think that you'll have to worry too much about physical media going away anytime soon - the big change will be in the way you access it and more importantly how you find out about it. As a member of this forum you're already participating in the new paradigm. My musical formative years were in the mid to late 60's where I developed a rather bad "browsing" habit at places like Korvettes in Douglaston, Queens (just off the LIE). I could spend hours at a time looking for just that special $3.99 LP purchase - many times, just because I liked the album cover. I suspect that many here have similar stories. With the demise of terrestrial radio and now the beginnings of the end of printed media (Paste Mag just announced their end date) - exposure to new music becomes a much more complex issue.
 
honestly i don't feel any sorry for the mainstream music labels. they started to dig own grave since the second half of 90's on the top of the wave of financial succes. at time when they have earned billions in the profits, there weren't even single penny have been invested to build the market of the future.
what goes around - comes around, so it's time to pay for their own ignorance.
even latest Rhino's experiment with re-issue of original quad i can't see as an attempt to research of the present market but as a spit in the face of their potential consumer by offering "new" product in surround but mp3 format. thanks but i don't feel like i'm in the needs to pay $30 to go back in the early 90's with wonders of newly introduced mp3.
 
honestly i don't feel any sorry for the mainstream music labels. they started to dig own grave since the second half of 90's on the top of the wave of financial succes. at time when they have earned billions in the profits, there weren't even single penny have been invested to build the market of the future.
what goes around - comes around, so it's time to pay for their own ignorance.
even latest Rhino's experiment with re-issue of original quad i can't see as an attempt to research of the present market but as a spit in the face of their potential consumer by offering "new" product in surround but mp3 format. thanks but i don't feel like i'm in the needs to pay $30 to go back in the early 90's with wonders of newly introduced mp3.

I understand profits were made in the 90's and I see this kind of claim often. What I have never seen is a coherent suggestion as to what the music companies could have done to keep illegal downloading from destroying their business. The market obviously prefers free over paying for CDs or other packaged media. I wouldn't be surprised if for each music download paid for, about 100 free downloads are taken. There was also no solution available to the problem that having billions of CDs in circulation creates for the value of new CDs. Why buy new when so much music can be purchased for a couple of dollars used? Recording and distributing new music that the market wants will help but the music companies can't do much to help with that either, that is mostly up to the artists.

These are certainly tough times for music companies and it is popular here and other forums to blame the music companies for their problems but I sure don't see it that way. I have thousands of music discs and in my opinion the companies did a great job by providing quality and value, the market wants free now instead.
 
What I have never seen is a coherent suggestion as to what the music companies could have done to keep illegal downloading from destroying their business.

Every iother thread winds us up at the same place here, doesn't it?

I agree with you, Chris, but it would take way too much backtracking, at this point, in order to figure out what the industry could have done differently. I simply didn't have enough knowledge as to the industry around the time Napster hit. I do remember, though, feeling unappreciated and talked down to by the labels (and Lars Ulrich). I can't speak of specifics, but Napster (and its derivatives) made it exciting to explore music and opened up a whole world of listening opportunities, whether that was new music, out-of-print music, or whatever else. The Rhapsodies and Napster 2.0's of that world only tried to replicate the "online" model, but added so much DRM, lack of ownership of the music you're listening to, etc., that they shot themselves in the foot. They wanted to maintain too much of the pie when the pie needed to be rebaked almost from scratch.

Instead, I think the industry should have spent a ton more time educating people as to why that 96 kbps mp3 they just got off Limewire with the DJ intro off the radio still in there isn't going to measure up to a lossless piece of music and that, yes, that lossless piece of music is worth paying for! Some of us know that, but less of us know that than you think (and let's keep this away from age arguments and "kids" and "old guys" and whatnot.) They missed that opportunity, and they lost a generation to another way of acquiring music.

What this has to do with Rhino not giving you as many, I don't know, Yes reissues, or whatever, seems to me like simply trickling down.

No, I don't feel bad for the industry, but I do feel sad at the loss of the experience of walking through an actual store dedicated to recorded music, where the decisions as far as what is stocked, promoted, etc. is less in the hands of a guy who will just as easily put a refrigerator in that endcap space. Then again, if I was a 14 year-old who only knows of music through Limewire, how can I miss an experience I never saw?
 
Certainly, the current state of affairs is one big rabbit hole. Everyone can make their own case for the why's and how's. Greed, arrogance, stupidity, lack of vision, entrenchment in the old rather than embracing the new, etc. etc. have been around since someone starting making money off the sale of someone elses creation. One would think that we would somehow learn from the past - but I am afraid, as the saying goes, that we are doomed to repeating those mistakes - over and over again. If anyone wants to read a very enjoyable and informative tale of greed, blind ambition, violence and corruption, I highly recommend the Tommy James autobiography, "Me, The Mob and The Music." Seems like years but it wasn't all that long ago that Morris Levy (the inspiration for the character "Hesh" in the Sopranos) and his gang were wreaking havoc in the music industry.
 
What I have never seen is a coherent suggestion as to what the music companies could have done to keep illegal downloading from destroying their business.

Chris there were always had been and even still now opportunities for changes but why i should care. the labels have top paid CEO, seniors market researchers and market strategy developers - quite obvious that this is not my bussines and no one of them will listen to me or any other outsider.
b.t.w. anyway, what their releasing now, pretty much way off of my interests without regards in which format it had been issued.
relatively good releases, as an aestetical, either technical point of view, anyway coming now from small independent labels.
as long, as music industry would be based on megalomania, no changes will apear, period.
actually the last thesis probably can be applied to any modern model of the business, banking, manufacturing, service, etc.
 
I certainly like having digital copies of my physical media for portability, but when it comes down to it, I still can't shake the "need" to have the physical product, complete with jewel case (and digipak if I have to, ugh), inserts, lyrics and release notes, and album art. That has always been part of the thrill of collecting and listening to music and movies. I realize I am a dying breed, but I can't bring myself to embrace buying digitally. I am going to hold on to the physical medium as long as I can. Thereafter, I too will be forced into this digital realm I suppose. But, until that day, I'm going down with a fight.

I prefer having the physical product as a backup myself, but I've become a total convert to the idea of having everything on hard drives and easily accessible. I was never that impressed with the concept until I actually started playing around with it, but I've found that it's literally changed my life. My entire CD collection (as well as some digitized vinyl and tape) is stored on networked hard drives and played back on synchronizable hardware throughout the house. I'm using lossless FLAC, not MP3, and the hardware (various Logitech Squeezebox devices) allows me to also play DTS and AC-3 material. I no longer have to search for that song I know I have on one of 100 compilation CDs and I can easily build on-the-fly playlists, adding albums or tracks to the queue as soon as the idea comes into my head.

I can't imagine ever parting with any of my media--from my kiddy 78s to the modern stuff, but for ease of access, this setup just can't be beat...with two major exceptions: It's no good for SACD or DVD-A.

A highlight of my weekend is going to bed on Friday and Saturday nights and telling the Squeezebox to randomly play as-yet-unplayed albums all night long.
 
A quick heads-up for PANTERA fans - RHINO has released Expanded 2 and Deluxe 3 CD editions of the bands first commercial album, COWBOYS FROM HELL, as of Sept. 14th in the U.S.

Both sets include the original album remastered + rare live material while the Deluxe 3 CD edition includes a generous amount of demos (y)

An ULTIMATE BOX SET is also scheduled for release later this year.

*** I have read comments online that copies of the 2 CD version are being sold with broken or damaged flip trays while the 3 CD versions appear to be OK thanks to the digipak casing. This same dilemma also occurred with Jeff Beck's 2010 release. Shame.

As for availability, the best price I've found so far for the 3 disc set is at BB and Amazon who are both asking $19.99. I checked two of my local BB's today and they didn't have it yet (not the first time BB hasn't carried a disc on release date) so I will likely trouble my wife to order a copy via Amazon since she has free 2-day shipping and there's no tax.

No, sorry fellas, there won't be any quad or multichannel release this time around - just an amazing metal-era album that introduced the world to the genius guitar work of the (tragically) late Diamond Darrell - RIP Dimebag!

If you're a Pantera fan like me, please support Rhino and purchase a copy!

Dan
 

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I have picked up several of the Rhino box sets recently, primarily because I doubt if any of them are still being made and some may get very expensive. Most all of the ones I wanted were very affordable, one exception I found was "Nuggets II: Original Artyfacts From The British Empire And Beyond", it is already too expensive for me. I will pass on it, unless I luck into one for a lot less than anything I have seen so far.
 
Most late 80's/early 90's rock album are really started to show their age production-wise. Any sonic upgrade to an album like "Cowboys From Hell" is appreciated. I will say, though, that sometimes extra "stuff" can be just as detrimental to the sales of an album. In this case, $19.99 appears to be a fair price, though, for a real fan of the album. I bought two of the Cure reissues, three of the New Order, etc., because the price point was fair enough to justify the upgrade and extra stuff. Ask too much and you're driving folks who'd normally buy the album to just look it up on Limewire, etc.
 
Most late 80's/early 90's rock album are really started to show their age production-wise. Any sonic upgrade to an album like "Cowboys From Hell" is appreciated.

It's not an upgrade. If you need your teeth descaled then listen to the new remaster. Pretty painful.
 
There are more than enough "the sky is falling" threads here but this one seems as good as any to post the latest update on the state of the industry. Overall, not a good week for the music biz;

1. The Rhino layoffs were put into action this week with the word that 20 - 40 (out of approx. 100) were let go last week. Mainly marketing and physical sales staff.
2. Warner Music just announced the departure of CEO Tom Whalley and his team - to be replaced with another entirely new group of top management. The merry go round...
3. Best Buy just announced a new reduction (by November) in the space dedicated to CD/DVD in their stores in favor of PCs, gaming, digital platforms (Kindle, I Pads, etc) and 3D technology. More details here http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/best-buy-cut-cds-dvds-as-google-apple-prep-for-mus/19635476/

The world of music continues on but where it goes...
 
I saw the Best Buy announcement. The end of CD as the dominant way to sell music must be coming a lot quicker than I previously thought.
 
Well I don't think that you'll have to worry too much about physical media going away anytime soon - the big change will be in the way you access it and more importantly how you find out about it. As a member of this forum you're already participating in the new paradigm.

I appreciate the optimism elmer, and I will hold on to that optimism as long as I can! (y) I also realize I'm not alone in my feelings about physical media and I look at the vinyl "resurgence" as evidence that perhaps physical media will never quite go away, at least during our lifetimes. Frankly, now that I have a sizable physical surround-sound collection and the overall industry support for surround-sound has waned, I'm more concerned about ensuring I have the players to support my collection for a lifetime of enjoyment.

I wrote some more musings about the viability of downloaded surround-sound in the near future, but I was probably too off-topic so I held back from posting it.

Regards,
Josh
 
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