media players 095

[holland123]

Ok G,
so I've taken your media player 101, 102, and 103 classes a few times now, (thank you for all the info by the way). Some of it i must confess i Really don't understand. i am not too tech savvy but i can easily see that the future of multimedia playback is located right here within these threads. I am very interested. So i have some questions for you that may seem rather stupid. But please bear with me.
1. The intel nuc offers 3 different versions with a $200 cost spread for me from top model to bottom model. If i plan on using this to put my surround music, stereo music and movies on and simple play back of these files only. (no internet surfing, operational software usage, other than the player program, which model do i want and why? (i have way more stuff than even the larger nuc will store)
2. Which brings me to my next question. Am i correct in assuming that you can connect through usb plugs an external hard drive, and possibly 2 hard drives piggybacked, and play directly from the files on those external drive(s)? and...
3. Is there another system besides this nuc that i should consider? ( That nuc however seems pretty cool).

G my friend please try to answer without using technical abbreviations for some of these computer things because I'm actually an idiot and i honestly don't know what an ssd is or abc or an xyz. I do know the basics: hdmi, usb, hdd. By the way if you run into my old lady please don't tell her i admitted i was an idiot K

 

[HomerJAU]

Glad to help out Kevin. Hopefully other QQ members will follow this too.

Yes, you can connect USB drives to a media player’s USB ports. A NUC has 3 or 4 USB ports. The NUC/media player won’t store media just the operating system and playback software and metadata database (data for your media collection, artist/album info and movies titles/actors etc, cover artwork, artist/actor images etc). The database is invisible to a user but allows extremely fast search/find and helps drive the user interface.

I’ve tried a number of media players specifically for multichannel hi res playback and all have issues of some sort. Some low low cost won’t do 24 bit PCM/FLAC putting them out of contention. Others are quite slow, reading off SD cards or crappy Ethernet or USB ports that won’t accept a non-powered USB disc (a typical 2 or 3TB Western Digital Passport drive).

Right now I’d recommend:

• Intel i3 NUC (4th or 5th Gen - current is 7th Gen but these later gen NUCs don’t do PCM/FLAC at hi res, yet). EDIT: November 2018: Latest LibreElec/Kodi Leia now supports MCH hires on 7th and 8th gen NUCs
• Kodi media player software (free)
• A small USB key drive (to install Kodi) - 500Mb min
• A smart phone or tablet to act as a fantastic user interface or remote control

At least one USB drive to store your music and video. I can get about 1000 MCH albums on a 3TB drive. But if you have blu-ray concerts they can get to 30GB or more each, so more drives needed.

The NUC comes with a power supply but no memory or disc (now days it’s very fast non-volatile memory). So you need to buy at least 4GB RAM and a 30GB ‘disc’, but don’t panic I can recommend these from Amazon, you just need to place an order then open the case and insert the components into sockets. Easy as. No wiring.

If you already have an Android or Apple phone or tablet you can use that. Just install an app and that will control Kodi on the NUC. Turning the NUC on goes straight to Kodi so you can run without a TV screen, just from the smart phone/tablet app. The NUC connects viv HDMI to your AVR (audio and video), but you already know that, right?

I’ll reply with more in the morning. Please go ahead and fire more questions if you have any.

I will provide some links to items which will give you an idea of costs.

Garry

 

[HomerJAU]

I’m using an Intel i3 NUC 4th gen and it works perfectly for MCH FLAC up to 192/24 and all 1080p video with DTS-HDMA, Dolby TrueHD etc via HDMI pass through to an AVR (passes Atmos too).

Edit: Updated link
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-D34010WYK-DisplayPort-i3-4010U-Consumer/dp/B00H3YT886?th=1

$285 with free shipping

There’s 2x 4GB memory at the bottom of that page $72

Grab a msata SSD drive card (very fast) like this: $38
https://www.amazon.com/Transcend-MS...UTF8&qid=1522403997&sr=1-7&keywords=msata+ssd

You also need a mini HDMI to HDMI adapter (cheap):
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-HD...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HVDX1YJGJMQ20K12Y1QM

Or a male-male cable that has full size HDMI at one end and mini at other.

Edit: Keyboard info added: ——-
To install LibreElec from the USB stick you will need to use a USB Keyboard. If you already have a USB keyboard or a wireless keyboard with USB dongle you are ok to use that. Otherwise you may need to buy something like this (any USB keyboard should be ok though):

Logitech K400 Plus (this works for me - it has a small USB wireless dongle, plug it in to the NUC) $25
https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Control-Touchpad/dp/B014EUQOGK
——

So under $400 (excluding keyboard) for the NUC and parts to run Kodi (it will use a Linux operating system, but don’t worry as all that’s invisible to a user and all installs very easily)

 

[HomerJAU]

If you haven’t got a smart phone or tablet then this is what I have, perfect for a user interface (and to surf the net, chat on QQ and run email too):

Latest 9.7” iPad: WiFi only $329
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-9-7

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Intel i3 NUC (4th or 5th Gen - current is 7th Gen but these later gen NUCs don’t do PCM/FLAC at hi res, yet)

I didn't know that. It seems like a step backward, especially for a platform like a NUC which makes a pretty nice media server.

One other suggestion, if you don't use a smart phone or tablet and you are willing to go the old fashioned route (like me, and its also less expensive than the other options), you can use a small Bluetooth keyboard. To use a keyboard the NUC has to be in the line of site from where you want to control everything. I also use my media server to watch Netflix, Hulu, etc.

 

[DuncanS]

Intel i3 NUC (4th or 5th Gen - current is 7th Gen but these later gen NUCs don’t do PCM/FLAC at hi res, yet)

An interesting thread as I've been musing about getting a NUC to do this. It seems the later generation of NUCs can do 24-bit @ 176kHz, but reading between the lines I doubt they'll ever be able to do 24-bit @ 192kHz. It seems the latest processor specs were updated and downgraded as it is stated they will do 16-bits at 192kHz, and as it is bit depth which is the most important that's a significant downgrade. https://communities.intel.com/thread/115625

The 5th Generation NUCs with i3-5010U processors are NUC5i3RYH or NUCi3RYK.

 

[holland123]

ok G so what is the advantage of "building" this thing myself as opposed to this;

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Window...1522436002&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=i3+nuc&psc=1

which is what I was looking at originally and i don't have to do anything to it, or maybe i do?

and wouldn't I want a powercord to plug it in? oddly it's cheaper with a cord? and in stock, but is it the same thing? the description changes with cord, confused.

 

[holland123]

my next question is; 1. will this play iso files? I have most of my multi channel music as dvd-a iso files and i know how to rip my movies to iso easily with dvd fab. or do I have to convert everything to 5.1 flac and then what about the movies?

2. is there a size limit to the external hard drive you can connect to these? 5tb external hard drives are pretty reasonable these days.

3. is the audio/ video quality the same as playing a dvd-a or dvd-video disc on my oppo?

 

[HomerJAU]

ok G so what is the advantage of "building" this thing myself as opposed to this;

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Window...1522436002&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=i3+nuc&psc=1

which is what I was looking at originally and i don't have to do anything to it, or maybe i do?

and wouldn't I want a powercord to plug it in? oddly it's cheaper with a cord? and in stock, but is it the same thing? the description changes with cord, confused.

Nothing wrong with buying one pre-built but this one is a 7th gen NUC (with audio issues). It also has a 1TB drive which is way over sized for a media player and also a Windows 10 (which you don’t need). Hence it’s price.

I’ll do some investigation on status of the latest NUCs today

The believe the cord is just a standard AC cable from socket to power supply (the power supply is external). Not really sure why the option not to have it is there.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Holland, I've completed this audio "transition" over the last 2 years or so. And Gary has been an immense mentor over that time.

Allow me to offer my two cents.

The amazon link you provided is to a bundled NUC package. And that's a valid way to buy a PC like this, especially if you want a plug and play solution. And it sounds you do. It may or may not save you money buying it that way. But its important that the bundle have the proper equipment.

A few posts up it was mentioned that the newer generation Intel core processors (6th-7th generation) were not capable of rendering multichannel Hi res FLAC files. If so, you need to avoid those as Hi Res MC FLAC is what you'll be playing, most likely. The link features all late gen processors.

You may not need a hard drive in the NUC, but you might want one. Gary can direct you how to load all you'll need on a USB drive if this is going to be a single purpose machine. If you are gonna use it for more than that, consider a solid state drive (SSD).

4 gig memory is probably fine for audio. Be sure it has HDMI out, preferably a full size HDMI plug if possible, not a mini HDMI.

It also come with windows 10 (which you may or may not use or want) and a bunch of free software that you're probably going to want to dump

I'm surprised Gary isn't recommending a Wetek Hub to you, or something similar. Why not Garry? Have they changed?

EDIT: LOL.... Gary beat me to a response my minutes. Looks like we covered a lot of the same ground....

 

[HomerJAU]

my next question is;

1. will this play iso files? I have most of my multi channel music as dvd-a iso files and i know how to rip my movies to iso easily with dvd fab. or do I have to convert everything to 5.1 flac and then what about the movies?

2. is there a size limit to the external hard drive you can connect to these? 5tb external hard drives are pretty reasonable these days.

3. is the audio/ video quality the same as playing a dvd-a or dvd-video disc on my oppo?

Kodi will play movies from ISO files but not sure about SACD ISOs or DVD-A ISOs.

No size limit that I know of for external USB drives. I’ve used 5TB.

The audio is HDMI pass-through (identical) and video is supposed to be bit perfect too. I have not seen any difference between my NUC and my Oppo BDP 95.

I won’t buy another disc player. Latest Kodi and cheap AMLogic media players can play UHD HDR files as well as 1080p BD files. Unfortunately these AMLogic devices currently only output 16bit PCM/FLAC. So not an option for us. This will probably change.

 

[holland123]

ok , well the audio "issues" is a game killer then so what I want is specifically that older 4th generation i3 model, got it. the newer ones have problems. and ok thank you both for the info so i don't need a hard disc drive in this thing just a solid state drive which is like just an ic chip, got it, btw i didn't know what SSD stood for.
and yes I am looking at this for a single purpose machine simply to play multimedia. new question; can Foobar be loaded on this to play dvd-a iso files? for music listening i don't really give a crap about video content. so I think I am getting it now; that 4th gen i3 processor NUC has a built in hi rez 5.1 audio and video chipset whereas the newer ones do not.

 

[DuncanS]

The i3 processor in the older NUCs has the HDMI interface it built into it. So do the newer processors, but they have a 'bug' which stops the device playing 192kHz audio. It could be a driver bug (not very likely as easier to correct), microcode bug, but I think it is more likely something to do with timing on an internal processor interface.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Im gonna, give you my take on these too

my next question is; 1. will this play iso files? I have most of my multi channel music as dvd-a iso files and i know how to rip my movies to iso easily with dvd fab. or do I have to convert everything to 5.1 flac and then what about the movies?

Kodi can't process ISO audio files as far as I know. Its because of the way it organizes and indexes your audio library. It needs tagged audio files. You are best off with FLAC on most everything except maybe DSD stuff. There are other media players that can play ISO files. JRiver and Foobar do I believe.

2. is there a size limit to the external hard drive you can connect to these? 5tb external hard drives are pretty reasonable these days.

No problem on the size I don't think. For a lot of people a NAS (Network Attached Storage) unit makes sense. You may want to look into them either now or down the road. They offer the advantage of auto backup for the hard drives. If you have a lot of stuff to store, it may be a good buy for you.

3. is the audio/ video quality the same as playing a dvd-a or dvd-video disc on my oppo?

With respect to the audio, in a word, Yes. You won't get things like the DVD-A slide shows or the menus, or the lead in music loops (thank God) anymore. I think video is just pass through on most media players. It is important that the PC or NUC you buy can provide the video performance you need if video is important to you, but I think most will do 4k now anyway.


EDIT: Man, can you guys type fast.

 

[holland123]

aha, thank you all, ok also what does that mean that the power supply is external? do i need some sort of transformer or something? please remember you are talking to a pc idiot. also the Network attached storage sounds kinda like paying for a cloud storage like my google drive? so it sounds like i can put foobar on it for 5.1 music playback to play dvd-a iso files?

 

[HomerJAU]

ok , well the audio "issues" is a game killer then so what I want is specifically that older 4th generation i3 model, got it. the newer ones have problems. and ok thank you both for the info so i don't need a hard disc drive in this thing just a solid state drive which is like just an ic chip, got it, btw i didn't know what SSD stood for.
and yes I am looking at this for a single purpose machine simply to play multimedia. new question; can Foobar be loaded on this to play dvd-a iso files? for music listening i don't really give a crap about video content. so I think I am getting it now; that 4th gen i3 processor NUC has a built in hi rez 5.1 audio and video chipset whereas the newer ones do not.

You can load Windows an run any Windows program.

However, I’d recommend a true media player experience by using Kodi with a Linux operating system. Apart from being free, your media player will boot to a media interface and its user interface will contain all your media (indexed, sorted, grouped etc) with album art, artist images etc.

To get to this you will need to convert your music ISOs to track files (e.g. FLAC for audio - each song is a single file). Foobar does this very well for DVDA and SACD but it takes time. The end result is amazing but do you have the time to convert all your audio media? I started with just my favourite discs, then added more until completed.

Once all you music is in single track format you can play any song in any order and create your own repeatable playlists etc. You can also queue albums to play as well as change play order, add, remove etc.

 

[DuncanS]

It should be supplied with a 19V 'soap-on-a-rope' external power supply similar to the ones you get with laptops. The NAS is connected to your router, so local to you.

aha, thank you all, ok also what does that mean that the power supply is external? do i need some sort of transformer or something? please remember you are talking to a pc idiot. also the Network attached storage sounds kinda like paying for a cloud storage like my google drive? so it sounds like i can put foobar on it for 5.1 music playback to play dvd-a iso files?

 

[HomerJAU]

aha, thank you all, ok also what does that mean that the power supply is external? do i need some sort of transformer or something? please remember you are talking to a pc idiot. also the Network attached storage sounds kinda like paying for a cloud storage like my google drive? so it sounds like i can put foobar on it for 5.1 music playback to play dvd-a iso files?

No. The NUC power supply is a small brick. 120V in and 12V out (I think - 19V as Duncan says) out to the NUC. External brick means the NUC can be made smaller.

BTW: Don’t worry about assembling the NUC. It’s 4 screws to open lid. The SSD and memory go it sockets. Very easy and I can take photos of mine if required.

 

[holland123]

ok gents, thank you, now can I purchase the one in the link you posted that has the power cord because I definitely want/need a power cord as it sounds like it is proprietary to this unit, plus for some odd reason it is $10 cheaper with a cord??
I now understand why you want to convert to 5.1 flac not hard just time, got it no problem.
the SSD and the 2x 4g ram just plug in easy, got it.
and an internal hard drive is unnecessary, got it.
so what does linux cost?

 

[HomerJAU]

One more thing on conversion. The slowest part is ripping from disc, limited by the optical reader. Since you already have your discs in ISO file format the conversion to FLAC (or DSF) will be much faster.

If you have Foobar go ahead and try converting a DVDA ISO to FLAC files. You can tag the files through one of the tagging options too, as long as you enter the accurate Artist and Album names (I find MusicBrainz is the fastest but Discogs can get right to the exact release, including quad LP or Tape release but it’s much slower.