Let’s talk center speakers!

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I agree that all speakers should be matched, but that causes a problem for a center speaker if like me you like you speakers large and tall. That's why I haven't bothered with the center speaker (yet). I have more than one sound system all with home built speakers, the first was constructed in the late seventies, the other constructed more recently (still not even completely finished) use a labyrinth or transmission line design, I tried to make them tall and narrow to use less floor space. I've toyed with the idea of constructing a fifth speaker but possibly making it shorter and deeper to keep the labyrinth the same length, using the same drivers. For the most part if your front speakers are placed properly, not too far apart a center speaker is unnecessary. The only real advantage that I can see is if you want the vocals louder or softer on a certain mix. It would be good for movies (as originally intended), often I have to crank the volume to hear the dialogue but am then blown away by the loud sound effects. To complicate my situation is that I'm bi-amping both systems, to Bi-amp the center as well might be overkill.
 
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I agree that all speakers should be matched, but that causes a problem for a center speaker if like me you like you speakers large and tall. That's why I haven't bothered with the center speaker (yet). I have more than one sound system all with home built speakers, the first was constructed in the late seventies, the other constructed more recently (still not even completely finished) use a labyrinth or transmission line design, I tried to make them tall and narrow to use less floor space. I've toyed with the idea of constructing a fifth speaker but possibly making it shorter and deeper to keep the labyrinth the same length, using the same drivers. For the most part if your front speakers are placed properly, not too far apart a center speaker is unnecessary. The only real advantage that I can see is if you want the vocals louder or softer on a certain mix. It would be good for movies (as originally intended), often I have to crank the volume to hear the dialogue but am then blown away by the loud sound effects. To complicate my situation is that I'm bi-amping both systems, to Bi-amp the center as well might be overkill.

When I set the CENTER speaker configuration on my processor to NONE, it mixes the center channel into the L and R speakers. But then that information mixed into the center channel often sounds too loud as a phantom center when I do this. A couple of clear cut examples:

-Terry Kath's lead guitar solo on 25 or 6 to 4 (DVD Audio)
-McCartney's vocals in the middle 8 on You Never Give Me Your Money are overwhelming
 
Yes, it's a mixing choice but one that is resident in some genres of music and not in others. How do you change something that has become embedded in a culture?
I'm not sure what genre you are speaking of, but I assume its classical, considering your preferences.

I notice front channel spreads the most with pop/rock drum tracks. Sometimes the whole drum kit is spread across the entire front stage and even wraps around to the sides.
 
I have found myself making subtle volume adjustments to the CC for years depending on the title. For me, reducing it’s midrange EQ is quite effective in improving balance and clarity while at the same time alleviating its often honky and/or nasal characteristics.
 
I have found myself making subtle volume adjustments to the CC for years depending on the title. For me, reducing it’s midrange EQ is quite effective in improving balance and clarity while at the same time alleviating its often honky and/or nasal characteristics.
Howdy @Shnicks- wouldn't that partially be attributed to the characteristics of your CC also?
 
No doubt, and to the characteristics of personal taste as well. I have found this tendency to be rather consistent with a few different speaker configurations. I currently have Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1s as front L/R and the Anthony Gallo Reference Center. Couldn’t be more pleased with them. Taming the mids in the CC has for a while now been an effective way to allow the center to blend more seamlessly into the front soundstage. It does require a bit of a volume bump, but as I mentioned, I often find myself making minor adjustments depending on the content.
 
I'm not sure what genre you are speaking of, but I assume its classical, considering your preferences.
No, I was not speaking of classical where it is extremely rare (I cannot think of a single example off the top of my head).

I notice front channel spreads the most with pop/rock drum tracks. Sometimes the whole drum kit is spread across the entire front stage and even wraps around to the sides.
Yup. Pop-rock recording mixes are not constrained by the classical/acoustic performance model. Anything goes and, occasionally, that includes taste.
 
Who can tell us how most of the albums are mixed? Are they using five identical speakers in the studio?

And how many systems are sold this way? Aren’t pretty much all surround sound systems—-even the high end ones —-sold with a center speaker that is not the same as the L/R?
Very good question and topic. I find that it really depends on the artist, the mixing engineer and source material. But yeah - inconsistencies throughout. Some DVD-Audio, 5.1 SACDS like Elton John, Billy Joel, Eric Clapton all have very strong center vocal for the main singer with the rest wrapped around the other 4 speakers. Then you have some like REM, Many of the 70's DVD-Audio reissues that simply use the center channel as another front speaker and blend from the left and rights. Sometimes surround discs may have way too much bass, or in the case of most of the Moody Blues 5.1 discs - hardly any bass/sub. I know of no other way to smooth out various irregularities other than tweaking your processor. Also having matched speakers is the way to go IMHO. However, due to space and much dialog coming from the center I actually use a true center channel MTM of the same brand speaker (actually custom made and crossover designed my Madisound). But then have another smaller Sunfire HRS center channel (for all 5 speakers) and 5 super tweeters all around, then 5 Sunfire subs for each channel, and then 4 Sunfire Signature subs for the sub bass and a Sunfire Subrosa under the sofa. Crazy amount of power - you should see my power bill! Dedicated wiring (8) straight from the circuit board, PS Audio filters, etc. Only way I know of to find out how they were recorded is to get the mixers notes or speak to one of them and see what kind of studio and equipment they have I guess. But kind of makes things interesting.
 
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Ideally, the LCR would always be identical speakers behind an AT screen. The modern center channel speaker was designed as a compromise to accompany those who just can’t do that. You obviously can’t use a tower speaker or bookshelf at the same height with a flat panel TV unless you have it higher than desired.

I can guarantee there are no multichannel mixes that have ever been mixed using a compromised “modern” center channel speaker. Even with identical drivers they still will not perform the same as the LR. These are obviously being mixed in fully treated, as close to acoustically perfect rooms as possible.
 
Yes, it's a mixing choice but one that is resident in some genres of music and not in others. How do you change something that has become embedded in a culture?
You mean when lead vocals are mixed exclusively in center, but reverb trails are neatly and equally, and subtly in each of the L & R speakers, thus creating what appears a seamless and connected sound spread?

I find that nice, considerate, and can be tasteful. My mixed-matched speaker arrays have been able to reproduce this effortlessly since 2000 or so.

I should include a picture or my L, C, and R speakers as an example of what works in one person's set-up, and hope nobody laughs at me. :geek:
 
You mean when lead vocals are mixed exclusively in center, but reverb trails are neatly and equally, and subtly in each of the L & R speakers, thus creating what appears a seamless and connected sound spread?
Nope. I was talking about the exact opposite. See my EDITS.
 
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I am looking for a Definitive Technology C/L/R 3000 center channel as it has a built-in subwoofer that fires out the top. Their sales literature has a section saying that the CC speaker needs to be full range to give depth to the sound.
 
I am looking for a Definitive Technology C/L/R 3000 center channel as it has a built-in subwoofer that fires out the top. Their sales literature has a section saying that the CC speaker needs to be full range to give depth to the sound.
I do agree with that. The thought that a center Chan speaker is a dialogue frequency based speaker - and not required to handle everything that L & R speakers are required to, does kind of sound insulting to a music listener.
 
I have come up with the ultimate solution to the conundrum of the center channel speaker. Here it is complete with a Monty Python penguin.

Center Speaker.jpg
 
You could lay 2 tower speakers on their sides under the screen and have lots of fire power for your CC
Not quite as extreme as it sounds. For my center I've got two Def. Tech. SM55 on their sides under the screen.
 
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