OPPO BDP-103 Analog Outs to [insert musical 5.1 receiver here] - Looking for opinions, reviews, advice

[edisonbaggins]

I like to be very transparent with you all!

Just bought a used "perfect working condition" Emotiva UMC-200 off of eBay. $350.

Yes, it does support HDMI audio in.

For full transparency, I'm using KableDirekt 3' cables. They have reasonably good reviews.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I don't know about the 103 but my 105D had excess hiss until I discovered the volume control on the Oppo was trimmed down a bit. Cranked it up to 100% and sounds great now. You probably already tried this though.

Yep. I can't leave the 103 cranked to 100 straight in to the amp. It's deafening.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I don't know about the 103 but my 105D had excess hiss until I discovered the volume control on the Oppo was trimmed down a bit. Cranked it up to 100% and sounds great now. You probably already tried this though.

That's basically his issue. He's trying to connect the 103 straight into a power amp, so he has to rely on the volume control in the Oppo to cut the signal down.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Yep. I can't leave the 103 cranked to 100 straight in to the amp. It's deafening.

And a good way to BLOW SPEAKERS.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I like to be very transparent with you all!

Just bought a used "perfect working condition" Emotiva UMC-200 off of eBay. $350.

Yes, it does support HDMI audio in.

For full transparency, I'm using KableDirekt 3' cables. They have reasonably good reviews.

Nice. Get in touch when you are ready to set it up. I'll give you a few pointers. Go to the Emotive site and be sure it has up to date firmware too. It should also come with a calibrated microphone and possibly a Bluetooth dongle that can be used for streaming like with your phone. The dongle is an option I think.

 

[HomerJAU]

The Oppo analog outs are line level. They need a Pre-amp input (like in an AVR) to handle volume control.

A power amp just amplifies it’s input. You’ve got to vary the input level to vary the output level. Isn’t this all audio 101?

 

[edisonbaggins]

The Oppo analog outs are line level. They need a Pre-amp input (like in an AVR) to handle volume control.

A power amp just amplifies it’s input. You’ve got to vary the input level to vary the output level. Isn’t this all audio 101?

Perhaps, but then how come that isn't true of the 105? There is a learning curve to this hobby, you know...

 

[4-earredwonder]

Perhaps, but then how come that isn't true of the 105? There is a learning curve to this hobby, you know...

Truth be told, Mike, utilizing the OPPO as a pseudo pre~amp really doesn't cut the mustard compared to a dedicated pre~amp. The OPPOs are wonderful swiss army knives but I wouldn't put too much stock in them as pre~amps!

A dedicated pre~amp has the sole task of controlling the power amp, with its myriad of inputs and as such far surpasses the capabilities of the OPPO Universal Players.

 

[HomerJAU]

Perhaps, but then how come that isn't true of the 105?

Yes but are the 105’s connected directly to a Power Amp? I’d say no.

Almost definitely via an AVR or MCH preamp

 

[edisonbaggins]

Yes but are the 105’s connected directly to a Power Amp? I’d say no.

Almost definitely via an AVR or MCH preamp

Yes, yes, I hear on it not being an optimal setup, but OPPO's own support staff have recommended the xx5 series connected straight to amps, i.e. acting as the pre.

 

[edisonbaggins]

If you will be using the player as the pre-amplifier, then you will want to use the BDP-105. The BDP-103 has 24-bit DACs and has a low signal to noise floor, so it will likely produce audio truncations if you use the player's built-in volume controls and a hum will always be present as the amplifier will always be amplifying the noise floor.

If you are running through a pre-amplifier, or another device which will be doing the volume controls, then the BDP-103 will work in your configuration.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
[email protected]

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I think Oppos CS explaination kind of makes sense. The 103 uses a 24 bit DAC. The 105 uses a 32 bit DAC. Bit depth decreases as the volume is attenuated. So the 103 will approach its noise floor well before the 105.

High quality digital volume controls are 32 bit. Maybe even better stuff now.

 

[wavelength]

My experience is that the 105 sounds better when the output volume is set to "fixed" (100) as opposed to variable (running at 70 for example). I'm using integrated amps.

 

[JerseyEd]

One is an analog output involving the built-in DA converters. The optical is digital and passes the digital signal to the next device. (Probably a receiver and then using it's DA converters to get to analog.) Very different outputs!

Gain staging 101:
Every device should pass full level signal to the next until you get to the analog preamp stage (the big system volume control). That's what you attenuate your volume with. Power amps receive the attenuated (or not) signal from the preamp.

Don't turn down a digital volume somewhere upstream! ***
Especially don't turn down an analog volume upstream if you are passing analog line level. <-- That's how you make hiss!

*** If you decided to skip buying an analog preamp (for a separate component system) and insist on doing this digitally, I recommend setting volumes on the power amps such that your lowest digitally attenuated volume is -24db. That leaves you with a 20 bit digital signal. (Turning down 24db digitally loses 4 bits.) More than that and you start washing out the digital signal.

You can pass full level digital signals around all day long with no loss.
You can pass analog line level signals around quite a bit with care. (Line level IS made to be easy on the circuits and wire runs.) Emphasis on care!
It's easy to pick up noise in unbalanced cables. Turning the signal down upstream anywhere ALWAYS adds noise.

Hope this helps.

If it turns out you bought some gear that doesn't connect properly between components (ie. messed up with some of the above), don't struggle and expect physics to change and get results. Take inventory, regroup, get whatever the last piece of the puzzle you need. Attention to gain staging (the term used for making sure levels are correct) can usually lead to connecting most things properly though.

PS. Everything might be connected perfectly for the shootout and you just discovered one of your sets of converters was noisy!

I keep the Oppo volume at 100 and use my receiver, Yamaha htr5540, to control the speaker volume. Once the receiver volume gets to about 75% is when I start hearing the hiss-s-s-s-s.

 

[Tim Casey]

Sorry to chime in so late and so long, especially as I don't visit as often as I should, but there's been some wacky replies posted about this (along with good ones).

The output of the Oppo, or any disc player, is line-level; the output of any preamp is also line-level. The input of any power amp is line-level as well. You should be able to plug the Oppo directly into a power amp and get the same fidelity as using a preamp. There is no mis-match between the units.

A preamp will give you much better control over the volume as well as letting you adjust the EQ (if you'd like). The Oppo makes a pretty good preamp because it actually has inputs (most players don't), but you can't control the EQ; you can only turn the audio up or down.

(A phono preamp is another thing altogether. ALL it does is boost the minuscule output of a phono cartridge to line level. Don't EVER use it for anything else.)

The Emotive UMC-200 is an excellent preamp and can be found for cheap on eBay (you already found one!). I have three of them installed in different areas - my living room, my bedroom, and even the huge outdoor theater we watch movies in during the summer months. I used the mic that came with it to calibrate all three spaces. It works great!

I also have three emotive multi-channel power amps. None of them are hissy at all unless you put your ear right up to the tweeter.

If, after you hook everything up, you still hear hiss, try swapping out the Oppo for some other disc player. See if the hiss is gone. If it is, then your Oppo is definitely broken, and you should contact Oppo for a repair. If the hiss is still there, it's not the Oppo. Their flat fee is (I think) $150. They'll send you a box if you don't have one. It's worth fixing. I bought an Oppo 105 for about $450 (!) on eBay that subsequently broke. The seller paid for the repair, which was very nice of him. The unit now works flawlessly.

I actually have four Oppo 105s. They're unlike anything else, and they are my musical life's blood.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The output of the Oppo, or any disc player, is line-level; the output of any preamp is also line-level. The input of any power amp is line-level as well. You should be able to plug the Oppo directly into a power amp and get the same fidelity as using a preamp. There is no mis-match between the units.

This statement would be correct if the 103 had an analog volume control, but it doesn't. Its a 24 bit digital control. It will not provide the same fidelity as using a preamp when the level is lowered significantly. So even though everything is line level as you say, the degradation caused by the digital volume control becomes the issue.

If you re-read the reply from Oppo above, they basically spell it out.

 

[Tim Casey]

This statement would be correct if the 103 had an analog volume control, but it doesn't. Its a 24 bit digital control. It will not provide the same fidelity as using a preamp when the level is lowered significantly. So even though everything is line level as you say, the degradation caused by the digital volume control becomes the issue.

If you re-read the reply from Oppo above, they basically spell it out.

I agree. If you turn down the volume knob, you'll lose the fidelity. I was pointing out that there is no electrical mismatch between the Oppo and the power amp, such as what you'd get if you plugged the Oppo into a phono preamp, or if you plugged the output of the Oppo directly to a set of passive speakers. An earlier reply had implied that there was an electrical mismatch.

 

[edisonbaggins]

My plan A, at this point is to connect my 103 to the UMC-200 via HDMI. And, of course, the UMC-200 to the A-800 via RCA.
I'm happy to experiment with the 103's analog outs at 100%, but I have a suspicion that it does HDMI better.
I have asked Emotiva support whether the UMC-200 does analog in or HDMI in better. I'll follow-up if they reply.

 

[timbre4]

An earlier reply had implied that there was an electrical mismatch.

if that was me, the implication was not so much a mismatch as it was about loss of valuable preamp control and functions missing in between. YMMV

 

[edisonbaggins]

The UMC-200 is a great unit. I'd recommend plugging the Oppo in via HDMI. That should give you better sound quality. If you decide to connect it via the analog out, then leave the Oppo volume at 100% and use the UMC-200 to control the volume.