Surround Albums to AVOID!!!

[edisonbaggins]

I kept my expectations really low on Hemispheres and actually enjoyed it...


...but I have yet to revisit it.

I had a feeling that many of the titles mentioned in this thread would be disagreed on.

For the life of me, I can't understand how somebody could enjoy the Hemispheres 5.1 mix, but I'm glad you do (or did?).
Enjoyment is the most important thing in music, to me. I certainly enjoy some things that others don't or can't.
Atmos by Tidal, for instance. It's not as good as blu-ray Atmos, but I can still enjoy it. Others are saying they don't.

 

[himey]

I'm making a broad generalization here, but wouldn't most "live" albums have a pretty unadventurous quad mix? I mean after all, it's not like much of the instrumentation is isolated in the recording process. I'm guessing the experience listening is usually designed to make you feel like you're sitting in the audience?

I've never been a fan of any live album. To me, the studio version always sounds better...quad or not.

A couple of boot quad live discs worth seeking out are The Cars Moving In Quadio and The Stones Brussels Affair. The discussion on live multichannel mixes is a delicate one. We lost one of the most prominent members here ever on the topic.

 

[himey]

I had a feeling that many of the titles mentioned in this thread would be disagreed on.

For the life of me, I can't understand how somebody could enjoy the Hemispheres 5.1 mix, but I'm glad you do (or did?).
Enjoyment is the most important thing in music, to me. I certainly enjoy some things that others don't or can't.
Atmos by Tidal, for instance. It's not as good as blu-ray Atmos, but I can still enjoy it. Others are saying they don't.

When someone doesn't like a mix I like, I always go to my "are you using small rears and bass management?" Seems to always make borderline mixes a bit better...

Remember I mentioned I kept expectations low AND admitted to not revisiting it since.

 

[himey]

Beatles Pepper is my most disappointing mix especially in hindsight comparing it to Abbey Road.

 

[himey]

I have a stack of Silverline discs that ALL suck. The two which are the "best," Blondie and Red Rider, still pretty much suck compared to a quality mix.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Beatles Pepper is my most disappointing mix especially in hindsight comparing it to Abbey Road.

Have you heard of anyone self re-mixing Pepper's with a DAW to improve the mix slightly and how they did it; little tweaks sometimes can make a huge difference???

 

[jimfisheye]

There's something particularly offensive when you get a remix that just pales compared to the original. When things are missed in a crude way as opposed to an intentional different approach or even difference of opinion. From fidelity to finesse of mix elements. And then it's really over the top offensive when there was an original surround mix that was not only overlooked as an influence but looks for all the world to have not been even known about to the new team.

Some of those circa 2000 DVDA reissues with a new 5.1 mix but no inclusion of the original quad mix come to mind.

Billion Dollar Babies is absolutely one of those.

Special mention of all the Chycki Rush remixes. I thought these were all especially crude next to the original stereo mixes. Everything from fidelity to mix nuance. Including really crude stuff like gated noise reduction hard cutting in and out. Guitar solos either buried or just awkwardly loud. The stereo mixes are genuinely more immersive as well. This felt insulting to the originals.

The Moody Blues - In Search Of the Lost Chord
It's clearly an upmix. It isn't labeled as such. I might guess they had a 4 track with 2 stereo pairs of fold downs. (I understand this is the reason they didn't do a quad mix back in the day. Too much already folded down.) But that doesn't excuse the stunningly poor fidelity vs the stereo mix.

ELP - Brain Salad Surgery (the Jakko remix)
It sounds like a very unfinished mix with a couple blunt mistakes. Bass in all channels. One of the tracks (KE93) has the bass screaming loud as though it was accidentally doubled with a duplicate buss assignment. It's extra frustrating because it also sounds like it was on its way to being a seriously good definitive remix. It deserves special mention because it sells in a very expensive deluxe edition with this mix being the focal point of the edition.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Have you heard of anyone self re-mixing Pepper's with a DAW to improve the mix slightly and how they did it; little tweaks sometimes can make a huge difference???

Self Medicated Goo or A Momentary Lapse of Reason; another one I don't understand why they even bothered is the Santana Lotus SACD:
https://www.discogs.com/Santana-Lotus-Complete-Edition/release/10040223

 

[northernsoul]

Have you heard of anyone self re-mixing Pepper's with a DAW to improve the mix slightly and how they did it; little tweaks sometimes can make a huge difference???

Not much can be done. There is nothing isolated in rears or center to work with.

 

[par4ken]

A very useful thread... I have a few candidates, in all cases a disappointing to non-existent surround mix, with mostly ambience in the rears:

-Alanis Morissette - Under Rug Swept
-Steve Hackett - Wolflight
-Squackett - A Life Within A Day

Alanis Morissette in addition to being not a very good surround mix is a major victim of the loudness war. The front and the stereo tracks are brick-walled and even clipped. Terrible sound, I thought that DVD-A was supposed to be about great (uncompressed) sound, hi-rez audio!

 

[par4ken]

Some of those circa 2000 DVDA reissues with a new 5.1 mix but no inclusion of the original quad mix come to mind.

Billion Dollar Babies is absolutely one of those.

I would love to see Billion Dollar Babies original Quad mix released. Why churn out and inferior 5.1 mix???

 

[halbroome]

Sigh. I have never heard a good word about Bowie's STATION TO STATION 5.1. On the good side, it keeps me from buying a really expensive box set; on the bad side, I'm a completist who hungers for it .

Even with bad reviews, I'd jump on the chance to buy the 5.1 disc apart from the other offerings in the box!

 

[Eggplant]

There are SO many ...

• Train - My Private Nation
  • Also mixed by Nick DiDia, so basically the same issues as above. The front channels sound like AM radio and the rears are basically silent save for the occasional random isolated bit (a synth blast or guitar overdub) that has no connection to what's happening upfront.
• Eric Clapton - 461 Ocean Boulevard (DTS-CD)
  • If you want to hear how good this quad mix actually is, listen to the remastered version on the Give Me Strength Blu-Ray. Poor sound quality and some front-to-back balance issues on this mastering. I actually think the CD-4 LP sounds better.
• Wings - Venus & Mars
  • The quad mix is kind of all-over-the-place, but as with the DTS-CD of 461 the real problem here is the fidelity. "Rock Show" sounds downright atrocious.
• Bon Jovi - Have A Nice Day
  • Again, really poor sound quality

Here's a few that aren't necessarily bad, but are rendered obsolete--in my opinion, at least--by a superior second attempt:

• Rush - A Farewell To Kings (2011 DVD-A)
• Yes - Fragile (2002 DVD-A)
• Derek & The Dominos - Layla (SACD) (I wish Scheiner's mix wasn't so loud though!)

Re the Train album, turns out the biggest problem is the rears sre WAY too low. Turn them up as high as your AVR will allow and it gets better. Seems some engineers just believe rears should be quiet.

Agree fully with your comments on the two dts (quad) releases. Many if not most of the original repurposed quad releases on dts were mastered badly and sound worse than they should. 461 and Venus are just two examples (I hated Fly Like an Eagle also). 461 is unlistenable. Venus is close. The two Ohio Players discs sound fine so not sure what the problem was.

Never noticed poor quality on the Bon Jovi but did notice I only ever played it once. Surround effect left me cold.

Yes, you are so right. The 2002 Fragile is a pathetic weenie mix, a few notches above worthless. There were actually many releases at that time with the same problem, but no one complained because we were too busy being elated that with surround’s (brief) rebirth. The Steve Wilson remix is far better.

 

[The56Kid]

Amazingly, he has done some good ones.

He has? What?

 

[edisonbaggins]

He has? What?

Fly By Night is his best, IMO. I quite like it, as a matter of fact.

 

[The56Kid]

Well let's put it this way.....to me I could barely hear the rears at all.....I've got the 40th Anniversary Box as well.....maybe I got a faulty disc....anyone ever have issues with their set other than me?

Totally agree with Jonathan on Scheiner’s Layla mix - it’s fantastic and there’s plenty in the rears.

 

[The56Kid]

Mate
The debut Blue Oyster Cult album from 1972 is my goto BOC album. Absolutely brilliant album which I play often.
Play it loud and enjoy!

It is truly fantastic. I also absolutely love Tyranny and Mutation. Secret Treaties was a bit of a drop off and that drop off worsened with the rest of their catalog. At least IMO.

 

[stormchaser]

Interesting question. I tend to think of surround sound mixes the way I think of BBQ. It's pretty hard to completely screw it up but it is also pretty hard to absolutely nail it. I'll have to look at the QQ poll list and cross-reference the "losers" with my collection. Honestly, I tend to avoid the real stinkers according to the polls unless I'm an early adopter.

 

[The56Kid]

First, I excluded all of the Silverline craptastic releases from the early 2000s, when I first came on the surround scene. Aside from a few gems like the Gordon Goodwin releases, most are shit. That said, here are my ‘Don’t Buys’:

Bucky Pizzarelli - Swing Live (SACD)
This disc’s mix just doesn’t ever come to life for me. It sits there while I wait for something sonically to wake me from my stupor. Have never made it thru the entire disc.

Deep Purple & The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra - Concerto For Group & Orchestra
Weak, weak surround when it exists.

Eric Johnson - Ah Via Musicom
Simply, an abortion of a surround mix for one of my favorite 90s guitar albums. Bummer!

Natalie Merchant - Tiger Lily
As far as I can tell, the remix engineer’s name isn’t mentioned in the liner notes. Damn good decision if you ask me!

David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust
Daaaammnnn! Such an amazing and iconic recording and such a shiitty, do nothing mix. GRRR!!!

 

[sjcorne]

...and the other actually is Ace Of Spades I believe, very little surround in my opinion

I'm not big on the music, but Ace Of Spades is one of those surprise winners from Silverline. In fact, I'd actually put it up there with the best hard rock/heavy metal surround mixes. Lots of discrete elements in the rears - backing vocals, percussion, various guitars (several tracks kick off with the guitar intros only in the back and then the rhythm section blasts off in the fronts), etc. There's even one song with a swirling guitar solo.

It was mixed by Chris Haynes, who's credited for a number of other great 5.1's (Britney Spears' In The Zone, Foo Fighters' One By One, etc).