Suggestions for Dutton Vocalion Multichannel SACD Releases
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OK, Mr. Dutton, stop it with the church and elevator music and do this one:
PASSPORT-HANDMADE. CD-4 European Edition --Atlantic Records Europe
And this one, I said stop the presses!
Since when do churches have ELEVATORS?
You might have missed this thread concerning Larry Fast and Passport
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/chat-with-larry-fast-part-1.25878/#post-407326
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Cherry Red's CD reissue is still in-print, so that might keep it off the table for some time? I think it would have been on a two-fer with Philadelphia Freedom had it been available to D-V. It's a shame as the quad mix is fantastic.
What is the excuse on this one this time.
AWB is controlled by Warner, who have yet to license any material to D-V for their SACD program.
Subotnick's quads have actually already been reissued in digital form, as DVD-A's in these CD/DVD sets from Mode Records. Volume 1 has Touch, Volume 2 has Sidewinder, and Volume 3 has Four Butterflies.
https://www.discogs.com/Morton-Subotnick-Volume-1-Electronic-Works/release/789430https://www.discogs.com/Morton-Subotnick-Volume-2-Electronic-Works/release/682461https://www.discogs.com/Morton-Subotnick-Volume-3-Electronic-Works/release/3685487
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FYI What I meant by Church music is a tongue in cheek Wholesale dismissal of classical music MCH recordings.
Before you ban me...Here are excerpts from this months.
Widescreen Review that explains my reasoning.
"Speaking about engineering techniques that worked in LOGE one entailed a basic understanding of the Gestaltean archaeoacoustical foundations behind the two distinct types of 3D Immersive Sound fields we enjoy at the present. EGOCENTRIC conforms to innate mechanisms having spanned 60 millennia of evolution while ALLOCENTRIC supports learnt mechanisms introduced during a short 19 centuries. Hacking the loudspeaker selection and positioning for an EGOCENTRIC immersive loudspeaker topology will allow you to inject more organically perceived awe into your future projects, as our DNA knows what sounds more immersive than apparently some re-recording engineers do
Why are my sensitivities so biased against ALLOCENTRIC immersive audio? As a kid my mom was a virtuoso piano player and we had a fully fitted music room with a Pleyel, Hammond B3, Fender Rhodes, guitars and a slew of percussive instruments. So I grew up sitting among the musicians vs spectating from afar. As soon as Quadraphonic came out I had lots of music that was mixed with panning surrounds. My friends and I would play and go listen to Quad, back and forth. There are 300 EGOCENTRIC among 600 multichannel audio recordings that are only matched in their immersiveness by a mere 12 terabyte of demo worthy movies among a 60 terabyte Kaleidescape Library that I vetted for EGOCENTRIC soundfield attributes. One “can” easily beat other demos at CEDIA with these scripts. If you visit the quadraphonic forum, these recordings are graded for maximum panning effects. These 300 are must haves for DTS:X PRO and Auro-3D sampling in a serious immersive setup, of course along with the cherry picked 12 terabyte Best of the Kaleidescape store. I have proposed a short test script to persuade the general community to progressively embrace EGOCENTRIC over ALLOCENTRIC mixes, in the hopes that Hollywood broadens their practices to more effectively tap into our egocentrically conditioned collective unconscious and stop our scene analysis habituation mechanisms from frequently shutting down during scene analysis of our understanding of the mixes through discretelessnes oversaturation.
This is the negative aspect of HABITUATION, yet there is a positive aspect to it. By using Kaleidescape scene scripts every moment a scene ends and playback pauses while cueing the next scene HABITUATION mechanisms clean the palate and refresh the brain to clearly appreciate with maximum binaural intelligibility the next demo clip. It is the most effective way to do scene analysis on Immersive Sound tracks because the short scene durations concentrate the focus and the refresher breaks in between to exploit the better aspect of HABITUATION (attention palate cleansing in preparation of what lies ahead binaurally).
Panning rear surrounds is a hallmark of some of the most famous naturally occurring archaeoacoustical binaurally Immersive Sound fields. A 60 millenia-old Monolithic rock hollow in Africa, the 17 millennia-old Altamira Cave in Spain, and the 3 millennia-old Easter Aquhorthies stone circle near Aberdeen in the United Kingdom. These ancient mystical sites had better surround sound in my book than many movie theatres, LOL. This from a quadraphonic-like enveloping panning surround effects perspective, naturally occurring when playing primitive percussion instruments and drums. One of them the Altamira site even had a TOPSMMERSIVE effect, our latest demo innovation last CEDIA when we were DROPPING THE HIPPOPOTAMUS on top of the Alcons booth, LOL.
ALLOCENTRIC loudspeaker deployments (i.e., rectangular arrangement with in-walls) will suck the life out of EGOCENTRIC (aka stage perspective) recordings in 5.1 music and the movies curated into my Kaleidescape scripts, whereas going for the later design (floating aimed equidistantly circularly) as in LOGE will not impact the quality of the “forward stage in a rectangle oriented” audience perspective as in Live Concerts. LOGE fixed that for good. The best of both worlds can finally be enjoyed with maximum immersion.
ALLOCENTRIC recordings descend from the early Catholic cathedrals (Gregorian chants), the result of building technology evolution, you have a stage where the sounds originate and are projected towards the back of the rectangle. This is pretty much what happens in movies like Aquaman and the Marvel cinematic universe (except Dr. Strange and a couple others), ZERO WRAPS AROUND THE HEAD. It sounds unnaturally simplistic to me with its lack of binaural cue ecodiversity, and feels like riding a subway. These tentpole movies are so stem rich originally that when folded into few objects for the home mix the subway effect very quickly saturates our senses shutting comprehension down through our brain’s HABITUATION mechanism. So there are many of what I call ineffective semi-static Dolby Atmos mixes and then some truly immersive EGOCENTRICALLY ENGULFING ones. It should be quite anodyne for the mixers and creatives to entertain this discourse, for as my 45 grand investment in the 60 terabyte Kaleidescape store I should have way more immersion candy than the 12 terabytes I had to scour for. Get the point?"
Before you ban me...Here are excerpts from this months.
Widescreen Review that explains my reasoning.
"Speaking about engineering techniques that worked in LOGE one entailed a basic understanding of the Gestaltean archaeoacoustical foundations behind the two distinct types of 3D Immersive Sound fields we enjoy at the present. EGOCENTRIC conforms to innate mechanisms having spanned 60 millennia of evolution while ALLOCENTRIC supports learnt mechanisms introduced during a short 19 centuries. Hacking the loudspeaker selection and positioning for an EGOCENTRIC immersive loudspeaker topology will allow you to inject more organically perceived awe into your future projects, as our DNA knows what sounds more immersive than apparently some re-recording engineers do
Why are my sensitivities so biased against ALLOCENTRIC immersive audio? As a kid my mom was a virtuoso piano player and we had a fully fitted music room with a Pleyel, Hammond B3, Fender Rhodes, guitars and a slew of percussive instruments. So I grew up sitting among the musicians vs spectating from afar. As soon as Quadraphonic came out I had lots of music that was mixed with panning surrounds. My friends and I would play and go listen to Quad, back and forth. There are 300 EGOCENTRIC among 600 multichannel audio recordings that are only matched in their immersiveness by a mere 12 terabyte of demo worthy movies among a 60 terabyte Kaleidescape Library that I vetted for EGOCENTRIC soundfield attributes. One “can” easily beat other demos at CEDIA with these scripts. If you visit the quadraphonic forum, these recordings are graded for maximum panning effects. These 300 are must haves for DTS:X PRO and Auro-3D sampling in a serious immersive setup, of course along with the cherry picked 12 terabyte Best of the Kaleidescape store. I have proposed a short test script to persuade the general community to progressively embrace EGOCENTRIC over ALLOCENTRIC mixes, in the hopes that Hollywood broadens their practices to more effectively tap into our egocentrically conditioned collective unconscious and stop our scene analysis habituation mechanisms from frequently shutting down during scene analysis of our understanding of the mixes through discretelessnes oversaturation.
This is the negative aspect of HABITUATION, yet there is a positive aspect to it. By using Kaleidescape scene scripts every moment a scene ends and playback pauses while cueing the next scene HABITUATION mechanisms clean the palate and refresh the brain to clearly appreciate with maximum binaural intelligibility the next demo clip. It is the most effective way to do scene analysis on Immersive Sound tracks because the short scene durations concentrate the focus and the refresher breaks in between to exploit the better aspect of HABITUATION (attention palate cleansing in preparation of what lies ahead binaurally).
Panning rear surrounds is a hallmark of some of the most famous naturally occurring archaeoacoustical binaurally Immersive Sound fields. A 60 millenia-old Monolithic rock hollow in Africa, the 17 millennia-old Altamira Cave in Spain, and the 3 millennia-old Easter Aquhorthies stone circle near Aberdeen in the United Kingdom. These ancient mystical sites had better surround sound in my book than many movie theatres, LOL. This from a quadraphonic-like enveloping panning surround effects perspective, naturally occurring when playing primitive percussion instruments and drums. One of them the Altamira site even had a TOPSMMERSIVE effect, our latest demo innovation last CEDIA when we were DROPPING THE HIPPOPOTAMUS on top of the Alcons booth, LOL.
ALLOCENTRIC loudspeaker deployments (i.e., rectangular arrangement with in-walls) will suck the life out of EGOCENTRIC (aka stage perspective) recordings in 5.1 music and the movies curated into my Kaleidescape scripts, whereas going for the later design (floating aimed equidistantly circularly) as in LOGE will not impact the quality of the “forward stage in a rectangle oriented” audience perspective as in Live Concerts. LOGE fixed that for good. The best of both worlds can finally be enjoyed with maximum immersion.
ALLOCENTRIC recordings descend from the early Catholic cathedrals (Gregorian chants), the result of building technology evolution, you have a stage where the sounds originate and are projected towards the back of the rectangle. This is pretty much what happens in movies like Aquaman and the Marvel cinematic universe (except Dr. Strange and a couple others), ZERO WRAPS AROUND THE HEAD. It sounds unnaturally simplistic to me with its lack of binaural cue ecodiversity, and feels like riding a subway. These tentpole movies are so stem rich originally that when folded into few objects for the home mix the subway effect very quickly saturates our senses shutting comprehension down through our brain’s HABITUATION mechanism. So there are many of what I call ineffective semi-static Dolby Atmos mixes and then some truly immersive EGOCENTRICALLY ENGULFING ones. It should be quite anodyne for the mixers and creatives to entertain this discourse, for as my 45 grand investment in the 60 terabyte Kaleidescape store I should have way more immersion candy than the 12 terabytes I had to scour for. Get the point?"
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We'd all like to see the more mainstream pop-rock titles from the quad era appear on DV SACDs or anybody elses surround discs or downloads, but if you look back through the almost 20 years of posts here at this forum you will see many threads of suggestions for every label that put stuff out, from Rhino to Sony to little labels and large corporations. Almost every title you have listed has been requested over and over.
I am not saying to stop suggesting, I am just saying that if it were easy to license and release this stuff it would be done. It's probably the most frustrating aspect of this little corner of the internet. It's also why most of the stuff that came out will only survive in hobby created conversions. There are a lot of masters, like that Jim Croce, that just no longer exist. So the Q8 and QS LP are all that's left.
I am not saying to stop suggesting, I am just saying that if it were easy to license and release this stuff it would be done. It's probably the most frustrating aspect of this little corner of the internet. It's also why most of the stuff that came out will only survive in hobby created conversions. There are a lot of masters, like that Jim Croce, that just no longer exist. So the Q8 and QS LP are all that's left.
OK, Mr. Dutton, stop it with the church and elevator music and do this one:
PASSPORT-HANDMADE. CD-4 European Edition --Atlantic Records Europe
And this one, I said stop the presses!
Church music, eh? Good opportunity to plug this excellent 2SACD set
I actually appreciated some of the above suggestions of pop stuff - some of it was at least a little off the beaten path. And I know there's been some questions about Command recordings and master tapes, but I know Deutsche Grammophon recently reissued William Steinberg's cycle of Beethoven Symphonies recording with the Pittsburgh Symphony for Command, where there'd apparently been longstanding questions about the availability of the Command master tapes (but DG/Universal apparently found them all except the last movement of the 9th).
afaik the UK rights to AWB are currently with Demon Music Group and have been for some time.
i thought Croce's widow had all the tapes but blocked the Quads from being reissued?
Simon A
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Thank you Jon! This post should be a sticky and the first thing to be read by every new member and reminded to some whom have been here for some time.
Would be perfect for a Rhino release!
Dillydipper
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Fixed your typo.
Dillydipper
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While I agree, the material is there for an AWB Quadio product, I don't see the profit in it. I doubt there's the interest there was in the Doobies or Chicago.
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