Rick Wakeman - Return to the Center of the Earth

[fthesoundguy]

I would love to get even an upmix by Heyworth but $150 for a box of stuff I don't want or need will hold me back. I don't want a Umpa-Loompa, I just want the candy!

I'm in the same boat as you. I listened to this for the first time in a long time and while it is a pretty good album, I cannot justify that price for what he is giving out. Especially after getting Ultravox's Vienna set (Which is comparable in content) for less than half the price (And that 5.1 is fucking amazing). I don't need any press pass, poster or ticket repros... Filler crap TBH.

 

[splinter7]

I right there with you @fthesoundguy. And even at half the price, the Ultravox set still feels a bit too expensive. But I love that album and I agree the mix is incredible. I was fortunate to be able to use my Amazon points to get the set for $0 and even more fortunate that I got it delivered a week after the release date.

Still, I hated burning through that much credit to just get the 5.1. I guess I am never gonna understand the logic of packaging things together that don't seem to quite fit demand for the sake of being able to sell an Ultimate Edition. Seems lazy to me.

 

[ProgRules]

I guess I am never gonna understand the logic of packaging things together that don't seem to quite fit demand for the sake of being able to sell an Ultimate Edition. Seems lazy to me.

It's perfectly logical. They can charge more and make more money. It's certainly not for the convenience of the fans, but the music co.'s bottom line loves it. They make so much more that the lost sales are insignificant. Only when people stop buying these uber-boxes will they stop making them. But we're in a catch-22. If we stop buying them there's no guarantee we'll get surround mixes at all.

Personally, I think they're way overpriced for the value I'd get so I don't buy them. But for others with more disposable income, it's a different call. I'm grateful to them because sometimes eventually the surround mix gets a standalone release.

 

[curtisjnewell]

Does anybody know why Simon Heyworth didn't have access to the original multi-tracks of The Red Planet, so a true surround mix could have been made??? What we got is kind of boring.

 

[lowwhistler]

To answer someone's question (can't find it), the Return surround in the boxed set is an upmix from the original 24bit stereo master. I have fed back some of your comments, but these boxed sets are low run and aimed at the core fan, hence they are full of memorabilia etc. and just happen to have a surround mix in them, they're not marked as a surround mix product. It would only be done that way if it was a true 5.1 mix from the original stems.
Wayne
RWCC

 

[steelydave]

To answer someone's question (can't find it), the Return surround in the boxed set is an upmix from the original 24bit stereo master. I have fed back some of your comments, but these boxed sets are low run and aimed at the core fan, hence they are full of memorabilia etc. and just happen to have a surround mix in them, they're not marked as a surround mix product. It would only be done that way if it was a true 5.1 mix from the original stems.
Wayne
RWCC

The original mix was Dolby-surround encoded - was there no discrete master that that Dolby-encoded stereo mix was derived from?

 

[lowwhistler]

The original mix was Dolby-surround encoded - was there no discrete master that that Dolby-encoded stereo mix was derived from?

No there isn't unfortunately.

 

[steelydave]

That's a shame - I really enjoyed the Return album, and actually bought it on release day from HMV in Toronto. The casting of Patrick Stewart as the narrator was absolutely inspired.

I don't know what the economics of these sorts of releases, but have you ever considered doing a surround mix-only Kickstarter? It might give you a sense of how much interest there would be behind a standalone BluRay (or multichannel FLAC download if margins are slim) release, and if you don't meet the required financial support threshold you're not required to proceed.

 

[lowwhistler]

That's a shame - I really enjoyed the Return album, and actually bought it on release day from HMV in Toronto. The casting of Patrick Stewart as the narrator was absolutely inspired.

I don't know what the economics of these sorts of releases, but have you ever considered doing a surround mix-only Kickstarter? It might give you a sense of how much interest there would be behind a standalone BluRay (or multichannel FLAC download if margins are slim) release, and if you don't meet the required financial support threshold you're not required to proceed.

No, Rick won't use crowdfunding.

 

[4-earredwonder]

No, Rick won't use crowdfunding.

Wayne, it's a real shame that Rick won't consider doing discrete 5.1 mixes. His music certainly merits it. Has he ever considered utilizing the remixing skills of Steve Wilson?

 

[César]

Thanks lowwhistler for the information. Being a longtime Wakeman fan, the music and memorabilia including in this release does not justify the high price. This is just my opinion, while I was trying to convince myself to invest in the boxset mainly because of the surround mix. It being an upmix, no matter how good it is, makes the release not worthy. But again, I'm just expressing my very personal view, for sure the hardcore fans will get it. A greatly missed opportunity anyway.
For the experts here: from mixing engineer point of view, how much extra effort is needed to do a proper mix from the multitracks as opposed to doing an upmix?

 

[MidiMagic]

Maybe the question is: How many customers are out there who would pay extra for a discrete version of a Dolby Surround mix?

I prefer a compatible format over one requiring special equipment.

 

[César]

There's a win-win solution that may satisfy everyone: offer the surround mix (let it be a nicely done one like the Red Planet) as a flac download. I'll gladly pay for that and skip the big box.

 

[lowwhistler]

Wayne, it's a real shame that Rick won't consider doing discrete 5.1 mixes. His music certainly merits it. Has he ever considered utilizing the remixing skills of Steve Wilson?

Steven Wilson chooses what he mixes. Rick is very happy with Simon. In the case of Return, the stems just aren't available unfortunately.

 

[steelydave]

Steven Wilson chooses what he mixes. Rick is very happy with Simon. In the case of Return, the stems just aren't available unfortunately.

He's in good hands with Simon, who has surround mixing credentials dating back to the early '70s, which include the Gong quad mixes, etc. Hopefully he'll get a chance to do a proper ground-up discrete remix of one of Rick's albums at some point.

I think it goes without saying, but even in light of the palpable disappointment here that these first two projects have had upmixes as the source of their 5.1 tracks, we do appreciate your transparency on the issue, and that you've taken the time to interact with people here on Rick's behalf. I hope it's been rewarding for you at least as much to show that there is a genuine and strong interest amongst surround enthusiasts for real discrete remixes from his back catalogue.

I do recall reading somewhere that the discrete master tape for an unreleased quad mix of one of Rick's post-Arthur albums (White Rock maybe?) was located during the vault searches for the deluxe editions of Six Wives, Journey and Arthur albums. If that's something you could put on your radar to release, I think you'd find a lot of receptive buyers here.

Were the multitracks for Return to the Center of the Earth destroyed in the 2008 UMG vault fire?

 

[lowwhistler]

He's in good hands with Simon, who has surround mixing credentials dating back to the early '70s, which include the Gong quad mixes, etc. Hopefully he'll get a chance to do a proper ground-up discrete remix of one of Rick's albums at some point.

I think it goes without saying, but even in light of the palpable disappointment here that these first two projects have had upmixes as the source of their 5.1 tracks, we do appreciate your transparency on the issue, and that you've taken the time to interact with people here on Rick's behalf. I hope it's been rewarding for you at least as much to show that there is a genuine and strong interest amongst surround enthusiasts for real discrete remixes from his back catalogue.

I do recall reading somewhere that the discrete master tape for an unreleased quad mix of one of Rick's post-Arthur albums (White Rock maybe?) was located during the vault searches for the deluxe editions of Six Wives, Journey and Arthur albums. If that's something you could put on your radar to release, I think you'd find a lot of receptive buyers here.

Were the multitracks for Return to the Center of the Earth destroyed in the 2008 UMG vault fire?

Thank you. I'm here because I'm a huge surround fan too, had a QUAD system in the 80s, so I completely understand the enthusiasm - I share it.
We have no information that any masters were destroyed, but they are in the hands of EMI, so they're just not available to use.
There are always new things being discovered, so who knows what might be available in the future? The Universal deluxe editions were initiated and released by them with Rick's endorsement. The Red Planet and these new Return box sets are by Rick in conjunction with Rob Ayling from Gonzo.

 

[britmarc]

On December 18, Rick Wakeman revisits Return To The Centre of The Earth with a Deluxe Box that will include a ton of stuff in addition to the the album’s music. The Deluxe Edition will assemble with the CD, a 2CD Canadian live set with French narration, a CD of radio edits, a DVD with 80 minutes of recording footage as well as the entire album in hi-res Stereo, and a 5.1 Surround Sound mix. The Deluxe set will kick in reproductions of the album launch party ticket, the original press pack and photos, and wo posters.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Rick is very happy with Simon.

...and he has every reason to be happy with him! I've heard some of Simon's recent surround work as part of something I've been play testing for Rob Reed, and it's exceptionally good. He knows his stuff and has a superb set up for surround in his studio.

 

[fredblue]

...and he has every reason to be happy with him! I've heard some of Simon's recent surround work as part of something I've been play testing for Rob Reed, and it's exceptionally good. He knows his stuff and has a superb set up for surround in his studio.

there's Robert Reed surround on the horizon that he hasn't mixed himself!?

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

there's Robert Reed surround on the horizon that he hasn't mixed himself!?

No, it's a "creative project" that he's involved in, and the music isn't his material. Sorry; I'm being deliberately cryptic because it's still being worked on and is "under wraps."