I havn’t listened to my copy yet, but this is the most barebones packaging of all my Japan Quad SACDs so far. Add to that the channel assignments not being corrected and I feel a little disappointed. Hope to listen this weekend.
Japan Sony To Release "Birds Of Fire" from Mahavishnu Orchestra/John Mclaughlin on Multichannel Hybrid SACD
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And I'm sure in your line of work, Sean, it's easy to distinguish the Pedigrees from the MUTTS!
I know what they say, I just like to confirm such things....
From cursory look at a small sample, it does appear to be a new mastering...there are some peculiar and striking EQ differences (some very 'targeted') compared to the AF. And some interesting similarities. I'll investigate more thoroughly tomorrow and see if they're real
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Yet from the sole report we have, the Q8 of Birds of Fire is front channel reversed compared to the SQ (and thus front channel compliant with the stereo mix)
Yup.
I'm more confused than ever, just going over posts in the AF SACD Poll thread. The SQ front placement matched the stereo placement but the rears are reversed? The AF version reversed both the front and rears so the rear is now correct but the fronts are now reversed?
I just listened to my SQ LP via the S&IC and it sounded fantastic, discrete even. I have a near mint copy, the made for the UK version with the CBS label. The drums decoded perfectly, I didn't notice the leakage that sscully was talking about. I didn't notice the X pan but will give it another listen.
I just listened to my SQ LP via the S&IC and it sounded fantastic, discrete even. I have a near mint copy, the made for the UK version with the CBS label. The drums decoded perfectly, I didn't notice the leakage that sscully was talking about. I didn't notice the X pan but will give it another listen.
? Link please. From my reading there the guitar and violin are in reversed L/R channels on the SQ LP compared to the stereo LP and CD. This conforms to what I hear on my file sourced from a decode of the SQ LP.
I haven't a clue what 'leakage' you are talking about. My focus on drums was about their motion during the intro to One Word. But forget the drums for a minute. Forget the rear channels. Listen for the placement of the violin, keyboards, guitar in the front sound stage. It is consistent across most of the album.
I am bolding what I know from actual listening to stereo vs SACD quads:
It's violin left, keyboard center, guitar right on the stereo LP/CD/stereoSACD (and reportedly on Q8). Evident whenever they trade licks
It's guitar left, keyboard center, violin right on SACD quads (and reportedly on SQ LP)
THAT is the most obvious evidence of reversal compared to the stereo mix. It's plain as day if you are familiar with the album.
The SQ decode that I have has the same layout as the SACD quads. It is a decode of the SQ LP but I don't own the actual LP.
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Here is the link. HiRez Poll - Mahavishnu Orchestra, The - BIRDS OF FIRE [SACD]
furui_suterioo
Quad & 70s Enthusiast
I have some tate SQ conversion dvda, here is the intro to One Word foobar waveform:
Drums seem to appear to start from RR to RL to FL to FR
Drums seem to appear to start from RR to RL to FL to FR
I know where the thread is. I was asking for a link to post(s) reporting the confusing claims that "The SQ front placement matched the stereo placement but the rears are reversed? The AF version reversed both the front and rears so the rear is now correct but the fronts are now reversed? "
Similar to me providing a link (twice now) to a post reporting the equivalence of the LP and Q8.
Please read your own post
quote:
"In short,
front channels: SACD is reversed L-R compared to SQ (and compared to 2ch original mix)
rear channels: SACD has the same L-R array as the SQ surround channels and the SACD front channels; but the SQ surround L-R is reversed compared to the SQ front L-R"
Oh, and I hear the guitar in the right front channel.
quote:
"In short,
front channels: SACD is reversed L-R compared to SQ (and compared to 2ch original mix)
rear channels: SACD has the same L-R array as the SQ surround channels and the SACD front channels; but the SQ surround L-R is reversed compared to the SQ front L-R"
Oh, and I hear the guitar in the right front channel.
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What ever happened to the ole days when a man could calmly sit in his rocker smoking his pipe and not worry about reconfiguring his pricey Surround Mix?
SWAP MEETS .... JIBBERISH!
and a poor surround mix may cause Depression, anxiety and a desire to REVERT TO STEREO!
SWAP MEETS .... JIBBERISH!
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"He called for his pipe, and he called for his bowl, I guess we all know about Old King Cole..."
George Carlin
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What ever happened to the ole days when a man could calmly sit in his rocker smoking his pipe and not worry about reconfiguring his pricey Surround Mix?
SWAP MEETS .... JIBBERISH!
and a poor surround mix may cause Depression, anxiety and a desire to REVERT TO STEREO!
Ah, YES
OK I see you replied on the *other* thread. And you're right, it is confusing, and my fault.
As I wrote up top of that 2015 post, my SQ report was based on an SQ software decode of the LP. Comparing waveforms and listening via headphones, to isolated channels, and to grouped channels.
Steelydave wrote a forensic post soon after mine, arguing the same thing from different samples; that the SACD front channels were reversed. But since then I've forgotten Fredblue's post from 2017, reporting the SQ LP (via Surround Master) to be reversed compared to the SACD. Which makes it like the original mix, i.e. 'compliant'. He also reported that the SQ LP drums do make a circle. This too was evidence that the AF SACD front channel assignment was wrong. From that point on my previous posts about the weird SQ phenomena based on a software decode, should be ignored. After that, my next substantial posts (July 2021) were about AF SACD vs original mix vs SACD with front channels corrected.
My mistake in the interim since then was forgetting that we already have evidence (Fredblue's) of the SQ LP being like the original mix. I just remembered my SQ being wrong.
Since you possess a mint UK pressing all you need do to re-verify this, is what I advised: forget the rear channels and the drum pattern, focus on the front channel, during the trading licks section of , for example, One Word or Celestial Terrestrial Commuters and report what you hear from left to right. If its violin--keys--guitar, it's compliant with the original stereo mix ...and the drums will make a circles during the One Word intro.
[EDIT: I see you report that it is now]
Again, this is evidence (along with the evidence of the Q8 and original mix), that the SACDs are wrong. Leading again to why.
As I wrote up top of that 2015 post, my SQ report was based on an SQ software decode of the LP. Comparing waveforms and listening via headphones, to isolated channels, and to grouped channels.
Steelydave wrote a forensic post soon after mine, arguing the same thing from different samples; that the SACD front channels were reversed. But since then I've forgotten Fredblue's post from 2017, reporting the SQ LP (via Surround Master) to be reversed compared to the SACD. Which makes it like the original mix, i.e. 'compliant'. He also reported that the SQ LP drums do make a circle. This too was evidence that the AF SACD front channel assignment was wrong. From that point on my previous posts about the weird SQ phenomena based on a software decode, should be ignored. After that, my next substantial posts (July 2021) were about AF SACD vs original mix vs SACD with front channels corrected.
My mistake in the interim since then was forgetting that we already have evidence (Fredblue's) of the SQ LP being like the original mix. I just remembered my SQ being wrong.
Since you possess a mint UK pressing all you need do to re-verify this, is what I advised: forget the rear channels and the drum pattern, focus on the front channel, during the trading licks section of , for example, One Word or Celestial Terrestrial Commuters and report what you hear from left to right. If its violin--keys--guitar, it's compliant with the original stereo mix ...and the drums will make a circles during the One Word intro.
[EDIT: I see you report that it is now]
Again, this is evidence (along with the evidence of the Q8 and original mix), that the SACDs are wrong. Leading again to why.
So here's the frequency (EQ) difference plot of Sony Japan vs the AF , left front (top) and right front (bottom) channels, for the title track (scanned with Audition CC using Blackmann-Harris window , FFT size 65536)
It shows how three narrow frequency ranges are boosted on the Sony versus the AF (or, depressed on the AF versus Sony, depending on your perspective), as well as a general treble increase in the Sony vs AF starting from about 2kHz upwards. The bumps are centered at ~77Hz, ~750 Hz and ~5500 Hz. The first two bumps are each a dB or less. The 5.5kHz bump is substantial! As is the uprising treble. Meanwhile everything below ~70Hz is essentially the same (down to 20Hz).
Should be an audible difference., to say the least....
It shows how three narrow frequency ranges are boosted on the Sony versus the AF (or, depressed on the AF versus Sony, depending on your perspective), as well as a general treble increase in the Sony vs AF starting from about 2kHz upwards. The bumps are centered at ~77Hz, ~750 Hz and ~5500 Hz. The first two bumps are each a dB or less. The 5.5kHz bump is substantial! As is the uprising treble. Meanwhile everything below ~70Hz is essentially the same (down to 20Hz).
Should be an audible difference., to say the least....
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A crooked smile EQ ?
NB: The sparse measurements at 10 Hz and less aren't really meaningful.
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I am really enjoying this release. The audio quality is superb to my old ears. I did swap the right and left front channels.
One listen to One Word and I am convinced this is the correct way to listen to this. The drums circling the room, the
violin and guitar in the same channels as the stereo version, it all makes sense.
I don't know what I would do without the ability to rip SACD discs and mess with the recordings.
One listen to One Word and I am convinced this is the correct way to listen to this. The drums circling the room, the
violin and guitar in the same channels as the stereo version, it all makes sense.
I don't know what I would do without the ability to rip SACD discs and mess with the recordings.
You could swap signal cables, like I do. Much less work.
You could swap signal cables, like I do. Much less work.
Mmmm, no, since you only have to rip once and do the channel fix once (and it's simply a drag and drop operation if you use MMH). Whereas you have to switch cables back and forth every time you listen to this.
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