General questions for a quadraphonic setup with some modern elements

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Kodaline

Active Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
72
Location
Indiana
Hello,

I currently have a decent stereo and am collecting components for an addition to make it quadraphonic, and I have some general level questions. More specific questions I'll put in the sub-sections. I'll briefly describe what I have going on, what I intend to have going on, then ask a few questions.

The current setup is a stereo receiver with two phono, two tape loops, one aux, and a tuner of am/fm. It pushes 2 speakers wired into the A connections, with nothing in B. The sources include two turntables and a CD player in the usual places. I have a cassette tape deck in loop one, and a program route selector holding a stereo 8 track player, a blue tooth receiver, and a seldom used equalizer. I have a third turntable, unused, which matches my other two (I had a pair, then bought this third one recently).

This started me on the quad route. Since then, I have acquired a CD-4 demodulator (which can do the CD-4 and 4 channel aux in), and a quadraphonic pre-amp. The pre-amp is of the design intention to sit in a tape loop of your stereo receiver (thus accepting sources/sending front channels out to/from it) as well as a stereo out to a separate amp, as well as having multiple sources of its own: a 2 channel tape recorder in/out, a 4 channel tape recorder in/out, and 4 channel inputs for CD-4 or aux. Condensing all that; I can have CD-4, two 4 channel inputs, whatever I send it from the stereo receiver plus one more two channel input, and 2 and 4 channel outs. The pre-amp can do discrete and matrix quad as well as stereo out the rear.

The plan is to acquire a SACD player for the 4 channel aux in. I could pursue a Quad 8 tape deck, and a Quad 4 tape deck. Considering how little even the professional recordings are around, I doubt anyone personally records to either format any more, so both of those would be for playing media (although my stereo 8 track is a recorder, I have never seen a Quad 8 recorder.)

Now, for the questions:
1. A SACD player will need to have 4 channel analog out, and those are not longer made, I believe, so I will look for good used. I do not know if they can be old enough for 4 channel analog out, yet USB in (see question 2). Could I hear some recommendations of a good SACD player with hopefully both 4 channel analog out and USB in?
2. It doesn't seem like there are audiophile DACs for Quad like there are for Stereo. It looks like there are two methods, USB to a DAC in a SACD player that has 4 analog out, or have a good sound card in a PC you can set up to 4 channel analog out. I can handle the sound card end of things. Am I correct in assuming there are no 4 channel analog out stand alone DACs?
3. It also seems like there are no ADCs that do 4 channel other than a full blown mixing board. Ideally, I'd get a great cd-4 record and capture it to 4 channel digital to a PC, then burn to a SACD or just keep it on the hdd or both for normal listening. Am I correct in that conclusion?
4. Am I correct in thinking no one records personally quad 4 anymore? I know of some people recording stereo R2R.

Thank you for recommendations.
 
Now, for the questions:
1. A SACD player will need to have 4 channel analog out, and those are not longer made, I believe, so I will look for good used. I do not know if they can be old enough for 4 channel analog out, yet USB in (see question 2). Could I hear some recommendations of a good SACD player with hopefully both 4 channel analog out and USB in?
2. It doesn't seem like there are audiophile DACs for Quad like there are for Stereo. It looks like there are two methods, USB to a DAC in a SACD player that has 4 analog out, or have a good sound card in a PC you can set up to 4 channel analog out. I can handle the sound card end of things. Am I correct in assuming there are no 4 channel analog out stand alone DACs?
3. It also seems like there are no ADCs that do 4 channel other than a full blown mixing board. Ideally, I'd get a great cd-4 record and capture it to 4 channel digital to a PC, then burn to a SACD or just keep it on the hdd or both for normal listening. Am I correct in that conclusion?
4. Am I correct in thinking no one records personally quad 4 anymore? I know of some people recording stereo R2R.

Thank you for recommendations.
Welcome to the forum.

1. Look for a used Oppo 103, 105, 203 or 205. The 103/105s have the advantage of being able to rip SACDs. All of them can be set to a 4ch mode by disabling the center and subwoofer. Those two streams are then mixed into the front main channels. There are two new models you can look into as well, see below. Each has analog outs, but the Tascam does not play SACD. I'm unsure of the USB feature as well. I believe most here will recommend the used Oppo route.
Tascam BD-MP1
Reavon

2. Check MiniDSP for standalone DACs. They wont be exclusively 4 channel, you just don't use the channels you don't need. There are other MC DACs. But they are high end and expensive. Exasound E68, Okto DAC8
The Exasound will also decode SACD

3. You are correct, and there are many on the forum that digitize the legacy formats. I believe you either have to go with a PC sound card or pro equipment. Others here are more qualified to give you better direction on this.

4. I know of no one recording Quad. 5.1 is the closest standard. Though there are many 70's Quad releases on modern formats, especially SACD. See here

Your best bet may be digital playback from a hard drive for a lot of what you are thinking. Good luck.
 
2. Check MiniDSP for standalone DACs. They wont be exclusively 4 channel, you just don't use the channels you don't need. There are other MC DACs. But they are high end and expensive. Exasound E68, Okto DAC8
The Exasound will also decode SACD
Agreed. However, note that the Okto will also decode SACD as will the predecessors of the e68, the e28 and e38, which may be available on the used market.
 
Computer -> audio interface with at least 6 output channels -> amps/speakers of your choice.

That gives you access to all digital formats at their highest quality. You'd also be able to record if you had interest in preserving old analog sources. SACD is still the ringer that requires a stand alone disc player to rip. All other discs can be ripped with very affordable optical drives for desktop or laptop.

This can be slick:
Computer -> thunderbolt to HDMI cable -> HDMI AV receiver

Watch out for netbook style computers with only HDMI outputs that are restricted to video only. Also watch out for AVRs with restricted HDMI inputs. (Some products suck.)

This always works:
Computer -> USB connected audio interface with the outputs you need -> amps/speakers of your choice. (Could be an AVR with analog inputs. Could be separates.)

You probably already have a computer and some amps/speakers. Might only need an audio interface with the I/O you need.

If you want to rip SACDs and physical discs speak to you in general, the advice above might be more comfortable.

There are a new crop of products out there now too. Stand alone Linux running media center devices. BrightSign is a company I've seen comments about recently. I haven't researched these. The idea is someone programs it for you initially and then the Luddite receptionist at the art gallery can hit play and not get confused.
 
I think I shall pursue a used Oppo or the bigger of the two Reavons for the SACD. I may also use it as a DAC for digital files from a computer (which I don't mind doing as I have extras and can build a new one if needed). The 4 channel DAC (or more) does seem to be high end, so having a player do double duty makes sense on the wallet.

I will look into a separate sound card with the correct inputs for the 4 channel capture. The preamp (Marantz 4000) does have 4 channel tape out, so it can go there.

I do like hard drives, but CDs are my favorite for longevity. I do like the older formats of all tape formats and records, and if I could get new R2R tape I'd give it a shot, but I think I'll have to settle for 0 processing high sampling digital conversion and storage. This is a ways off as I am still acquiring the components. Probably a year or more.

Thanks for the advice.
 
This is cheaper than some of the aforementioned units at $150
https://www.esi-audio.com/products/gigaportex/
You could use it to try things out. D/A only You might want to use it with a USB isolator and power supply.

Also if you don't want to start out with the price of an Oppo or the Reavon, there are many DVD players that will play SACDs and have analog outputs.
They also will play CDs and many will play DVD-Audio discs. They won't play Blu Rays and many don't have usb inputs. I bought a Yamaha DVD 1700 for $40 locally and it does all the above and has analog outputs. Like CDs and their players they are available in large quantities on the used market. One needs to check the model for whether or not it will play SACDs or DVD-As or both since there were some format wars. But many will do almost all of it.
 
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Hello again, I have done some research and I think I will buy a used Oppo. This will not be a video system, or, if it were, it would be a DVD of the movie of The Wall, or Tommy, or the Pulse DVDs, or like that, all of which does NOT need 4k video, so the 205 is not needed (to the great relief of my wallet.)

I have heard the 5 series has a better DAC than the 3 series. The 105 appears attractive.

I have a choice. I want to: play physical media through the transport and use the onboard DAC to make 4 channel sound, as well as play digital media off a PC through a USB cable to a DAC to make 4 channel sound. Ideally, I would like a disc player with a competent enough USB interface to use its onboard DAC as my DAC for the USB files, but I could get a cheaper Oppo AND a separate 4 channel DAC for the USB as an alternative.

My question: Can the Oppo 105 receive digital files, like a ripped SACD, in 4 channel via USB from a windows machine, and run it through its DAC to make 4 channel audio in the correct fashion?

Thanks.
 
My question: Can the Oppo 105 receive digital files, like a ripped SACD, in 4 channel via USB from a windows machine, and run it through its DAC to make 4 channel audio in the correct fashion?
No but it can do it via HDMI or LAN.
 
A year later, an update.

An Oppo 105 was acquired, and plugging it straight into the Marantz 4000's 4 channel in has very nice results for multi-channel SACDs.

An Akai Quad 8 deck was recently acquired and is still being tested out before going into the main rig.

I picked up a Motu 4 channel ADC/DAC for digital capture of 4 channel recordings, however, I have not brought it online yet.

I had my Marantz remote control and several SQA modules rebuilt for SQ recordings, which work well for those. The Marantz Vari-Matrix built in system seems to handle QS or Command Quadraphonic formats fairly well. I can't figure out how to have a Sansui QSD-1 hooked up at the same time to get better QS, and they are expensive. I could get a Surround Master v3.

Will eventually get quad reel to reel, but that may be a way off.
 
The Vari-Matrix in the Marantz is just a basic decoder, similar to EV4 or Dynaquad, simple decoding can sound very good but will in no way sound discrete.

The QSD-1 would have connect to the discrete input like the Oppo. You have the same problem as most people here with not enough separate inputs. One suggestion is to look for a video switch box designed for component video, they are passive with RCA inputs and outputs and can switch up to five channels.

I would look for a QSD-2 as well, cheaper than the QSD-1, smaller as well if that is important to you. I do love how the QSD-1 is built like a battleship however! Or else the Surround Master which is the modern solution and will also do SQ better than the SQA or SQB modules, and likely much less costly than a QSD-1.

Also if you were to add the QSD-1 it has a discrete input that could be used for the Oppo. The downside of doing that is it that the discrete input runs through the QSD-1's output amplifier, so the unit would have to be powered on while running the Oppo.
 
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Hello again, I have done some research and I think I will buy a used Oppo. This will not be a video system, or, if it were, it would be a DVD of the movie of The Wall, or Tommy, or the Pulse DVDs, or like that, all of which does NOT need 4k video, so the 205 is not needed (to the great relief of my wallet.)

I have heard the 5 series has a better DAC than the 3 series. The 105 appears attractive.

I have a choice. I want to: play physical media through the transport and use the onboard DAC to make 4 channel sound, as well as play digital media off a PC through a USB cable to a DAC to make 4 channel sound. Ideally, I would like a disc player with a competent enough USB interface to use its onboard DAC as my DAC for the USB files, but I could get a cheaper Oppo AND a separate 4 channel DAC for the USB as an alternative.

My question: Can the Oppo 105 receive digital files, like a ripped SACD, in 4 channel via USB from a windows machine, and run it through its DAC to make 4 channel audio in the correct fashion?

Thanks.
I have a 105, and it's my primary source. I have it connected via LAN to a NAS, and it plays many formats well through that connection. The DSD formats (up to 64, anyway) play through a USB stick.

One caveat on the USB usage. For some reason, mine seem to get corrupted fairly easily. That can cause the Oppo to do wierd things like stop playing discs, or blanking video when playing discs. It's worth pulling the stick out when you're not using it, and to check it on your PC from time to time. Keep a folder on your PC with the files you want on your USB stick so you can reformat the stick and reload it easily.
 
Thank you, Barfle, for the USB cautions.

Par4ken, those are wise thoughts. I am a devotee of the DBX 200, though I hate those springs on the switches and have had to pause on reassembling this fixed one for hemostats for a "third hand."

I figured out half the idea, and I think I just figured out the other half. This is going to get complicated, here goes:

I have a receiver in front and separates in back, connected by a Marantz 4000. Both "stereos" use a tape loop to talk to the 4000. The 4000 has the following connections:

Main In and Front Out: This pair of connections talks to the receiver in front. Main In is a 2 Channel Input.
Rear Out and 2 Channel Tape In: This pair of connections talks to the separates in back. I use the 2 Ch Tape In for any 2 Ch Sources on the back unit.
CD-4/Aux In: These 4 channels are talked to by my CD-400 off a turntable.
Scope Out: These 4 channels out talk to my Wurlyscope Mk II.
4 Channel Tape In: These will be talked to by 2 DBX 200s, and run multiple sources. You can put 6 sources on a DBX 200 if you know how.
4 Channel Tape Out: This will go to my Motu 4 channel ADC to usb for pc capture.
2 Channel Tape Out: Currently unused.

I just played with the one I have on the bench and found out that, if you run signal in on Main In, out on 2 Ch Out, and in on 4 Ch Front In (just using a cable between the latter) you can select the 4 Ch Tape In and get the same sound as Main In (you're just looping it). So, if I get a Surround Master 3, put a QS LP on a turntable, run the 2 Ch Out to the input on the Surround Master, and put the 4 ch outputs of the Surround Master into the DBX 200s, and set both of them to the right source, and the 4000 to 4 channel tape, I should be able to go:

QS 2 channel phono ---> receiver ---> 2 ch tape out ---> main in on 4000 ----> 2 ch tape out---> Surround Master >>>>(quad out)>>>4 ch tape in>>>Fr Out and Rr Out on the 4000 >>>> tape in on both front and back units >>> amplification >>> 4 channel QS speakers.

I'm going to need a pre-flight checklist.
 
I'm going to need a pre-flight checklist.
Gotcha, equipement hookup can get so complicated that others can never figure out what you are doing or how to work it. You can even forget yourself! The same thing applies when ripping SACD, Blu-ray etc., I keep meaning to jot down notes, make a cheat sheet or as you say a pre-flight checklist! I always scratch my head a bit until I remember just what to do!
 
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