Why is everyone so jazzed about ATMOS?

[quicksrt]

I don't think it is worth upgrading to Atmos for The Beatles' Abbey Road, even though it is a fine mix. But I think it is worth 100% upgrading to Atmos for many other mixes, such as Kraftwerk's 3D Catalogue or Yello's Point or Air's 10000 Hz Legend. Beyond electronic music, Steven Wilson's Atmos mixes of The Tipping Point and In the Court of the Crimson King are beyond amazing. These are physical releases, and there are many more via streaming services. So, yes. If you have the opportunity, add 2 or 4 height speakers and you won't regret it.

If you are still undecided, buy one of the releases mentioned above. Yello and Air are relatively affordable. Then go to audition an atmos system in a store and decide.

In The Court of the Crimson King was said originally unsuited for 5.1 surround mixing. Then they did it and it was well received. Then more recently they (SW) took another crack at it, but I didn’t realize it was done in Atmos. I wonder how it could be improved by Atmos format? I can see how a redo can improve things (with this album) but Atmos with very limited tracks is just spreading things out and around really.

Then there is the Abbey Road mix, reviews around here I think I recall saying that the 5.1 mix does not exactly cut it for some or many tracks, but the Atmos, oh dear amazing.

So with these kinds of things being said - I remain very unconvinced that I need anything more than 5.1. The case for Atmos appears fairly week.

I can see how speakers installed in the ceiling does add height depth to a soundstage, especially if the mix places the right content there.

But my ears are kept very busy with a good 5.1 mix. So I hope Atmos is a success so that more (rock music) surround mixes can be released and then be down mixed (with a good AVR) to great 5.1. Except for the ones like Abbey Road where the down mix is said to not work out well (for some weird reason).

 

[Albert Dagger]

In The Court of the Crimson King was said originally unsuited for 5.1 surround mixing. Then they did it and it was well received. Then more recently they (SW) took another crack at it, but I didn’t realize it was fine in Atmos. I wonder how it could be improved by Atmos format? I can see how a redo can improve things (with this album) but Atmos with very limited tracks is just spreading things out and around really.

Then there is the Abbey Road mix, reviews around here I think I recall saying that the 5.1 mix does not exactly cut it for some or many tracks, but the Atmos, oh dear amazing.

So with these kinds of things being said - I remain very unconvinced that I need anything more than 5.1. The case for Atmos appears fairly week.

I can see how speakers installed in the ceiling does add height depth to a soundstage, especially if the mix places the right content there.

But my ears are kept very busy with a good 5.1 mix. So I hope Atmos is a success so that more (rock music) surround mixes can be released and then be down mixed (with a good AVR) to great 5.1. Except for the ones like Abbey Road where the down mix is said to not work out well (for some weird reason).

The concept of spreading things out and around sounds about right, and it is the scope of surround music! ITCOTCK has a lot of layers and it works well in surround, whether 5.1 or Atmos. If I remember correctly, the height speakers are used for flute, mellotron, and guitar at times. The atmos mix really emphasises the many moments of climax in Epitaph and the title track, but it also works well for the middle section of Schizoid Man, and I Talk to the Wind is incredibly immersive. It is probably the most improved track compared to 5.1. Considering it was recorded in 1969, it seems a miracle to be able to listen to this album in this format and with this fidelity. Do you need it? Maybe not, that's a very personal choice. At the end of the day, Atmos mixes work for people with 5.1 systems, so it is a win-win situation in my view.

 

[quicksrt]

Still surpised by this known picture about why the Top Speakers are not aimed to his MLP but just pointing downwards.

Yes, I know that speakers could be of wide dispersion. And that would be the Atmos recomendation as to build the studio for Steven Wilson.

Also, if pointing directly to the central position, we would lose quickly height imaging if moving outside the sweet spot, I guess.

Also, this is how most of in-ceiling speakers are mounted. Some with aimable tweeters like mine. So, Steven should test listen how his mix sound for a usual in-ceiling setup?

Just thoughts.

Couldn’t one say the same thing about any speaker placed anywhere? I don’t see how imaging is lost by pointing speakers down from the ceiling, especially if there are more than one speaker and the mix is done right. I would point it in no other way.

But anyway I’d take Steven’s ceiling speaker placement as perfect for overhead imaging.

 

[quicksrt]

The concept of spreading things out and around sounds about right, and it is the scope of surround music! ITCOTCK has a lot of layers and it works well in surround, whether 5.1 or Atmos. If I remember correctly, the height speakers are used for flute, mellotron, and guitar at times. The atmos mix really emphasises the many moments of climax in Epitaph and the title track, but it also works well for the middle section of Schizoid Man, and I Talk to the Wind is incredibly immersive. It is probably the most improved track compared to 5.1. Considering it was recorded in 1969, it seems a miracle to be able to listen to this album in this format and with this fidelity. Do you need it? Maybe not, that's a very personal choice. At the end of the day, Atmos mixes work for people with 5.1 systems, so it is a win-win situation in my view.

You are stating better fidelity in a 4 or 8 track recording when done in Atmos? Incredibly immersive? Ok.

I need to look up the number of tracks used to record this album. I do recall it is limited.

 

[quicksrt]

I just listened to Abbey Road for the first time in Atmos. Now I'm finally jazzed about Atmos. Some parts of the album are absolutely wild in this format.

Yeah, and the 5.1 is said to be so lacking. Hummm.

 

[Albert Dagger]

You are stating better fidelity in a 4 or 8 track recording when done in Atmos? Incredibly immersive? Ok.

I need to look up the number of tracks used to record this album. I do recall it is limited.

It should be 8 tracks, but I am not sure.
The best thing to do would be to listen to it and then decide whether you think it sounds good/immersive or not.
Very hard to have a credible position without having listened to it!

 

[quicksrt]

It should be 8 tracks, but I am not sure.
The best thing to do would be to listen to it and then decide whether you think it sounds good/immersive or not.
Very hard to have a credible position without having listened to it!

I’ve spent on the first 5.1 mix, and going to keep reading reports before I spend another dime on this album. But I will likely eventually hear it for free.

I’m just enjoying reading peoples impressions of better fidelity with more speakers, like Atmos. It’s entertaining to me.

 

[Albert Dagger]

I’ve spent on the first 5.1 mix, and going to keep reading reports before I spend another dime on this album. But I will likely eventually hear it for free.

I’m just enjoying reading peoples impressions of better fidelity with more speakers, like Atmos. It’s entertaining to me.

That’s not what I said. Fidelity for this album has always been good, even more with the remixes, regardless of the number of speakers. You can re-read my post where I explain why I enjoyed this mix more than the two 5.1 mixes, but I think you are just trying to make arguments for no reason, in a way insulting everyone who enjoys atmos? Hard to understand how this style of posting can be entertaining and constructive. Sorry.

 

[quicksrt]

That’s not what I said. Fidelity for this album has always been good, even more with the remixes, regardless of the number of speakers. You can re-read my post where I explain why I enjoyed this mix more than the two 5.1 mixes, but I think you are just trying to make arguments for no reason, in a way insulting everyone who enjoys atmos? Hard to understand how this style of posting can be entertaining and constructive. Sorry.

It’s the content of the posts which can be entertaining, and/or constructive, not the style.

I don’t think I read an explanation of why you like the Atmos of the Court album more than either 5.1 mixes. I just read that you indeed do. Maybe it’s in another post here I did not read. And I think fidelity was touched on.

And no, not against Atmos or folks who like it. I explained why I’m not going for it at this time, but hope it results in more rock albums coming out in true surround, which it might have already. However Steven Wilson seems to think the surround formats and especially Atmos leaves many in the industry very confused. It’s not yet a clean cut success, at least for music listening is what I gather.

And I’m hardly the only one who is not going for Atmos right now. The really major reason is that I own a massive collection of 4.0 and 5.1 music on discs. Hundreds of titles, all of the DVD-A, and SACD stuff from rock and R&B, etc. just a few classical things I still need from DV. I have everything I wanted, Crimson, XTC, Yes, ELP, Floyd, and on and on. Likely much more than you own. So for me it’s not as convenient as it is for you to head into Atmos now. That’s a big reason too.

I have a 7.1 Chan AVR, so I am not that far from some sort of Atmos. I have high ceilings and could install speakers there. 10 or 15 years ago I might have gone for it.

But anyway, I can be happy with 5.1 because the media is there now and I own it.

I’m entertained with others entertainment of Atmos and their writing on it. Too bad if any are offended by that.

 

[AYanguas]

Couldn’t one say the same thing about any speaker placed anywhere? I don’t see how imaging is lost by pointing speakers down from the ceiling, especially if there are more than one speaker and the mix is done right. I would point it in no other way.

But anyway I’d take Steven’s ceiling speaker placement as perfect for overhead imaging.

Sound from overhead speakers is not only to get "imaging" but also to listen with good clear quality sound. When you are outside enough of the axis, you hear the high freq reduced like when putting a thin curtain in between. It may be not so important for films, with explossions effects or so, but for music with full band instruments or voices located above, it is more important.

The human hearing perception from above is less than from the front. And for the front (stereo) we can also argue about if the front speakers should be poiting parallel or aimed a little to the listener, or aimed completely to fire directly to the sweet spot MLP.

 

[quicksrt]

Sound from overhead speakers is not only to get "imaging" but also to listen with good clear quality sound. When you are outside enough of the axis, you hear the high freq reduced like when putting a thin curtain in between. It may be not so important for films, with explossions effects or so, but for music with full band instruments or voices located above, it is more important.

The human hearing perception from above is less than from the front. And for the front (stereo) we can also argue about if the front speakers should be poiting parallel or aimed a little to the listener, or aimed completely to fire directly to the sweet spot MLP.

I know, it’s the same issues for any speaker to different degrees. The sweet spot or the sweeter spot, or not so sweet spot.

One thing I have learned to do that I find “entertaining” is to enjoy a surround mix stationed of course in the ideal listening position. Then for the next listen, be concerned less with the perfection of position. This results in me hearing a different perspective of the recording. I keep listening in different ways and the music stays fresh. I have a desk on right side of the room between front R and rear R, and I listen to 5.1 or quad in that position and it’s really cool. I turn levels lower for those two Chans, so that I can hear the lefts well from afar.

Oh and even listening with center completely off works sometimes.

I mean the reason is that if the given album is worth hearing again and again then I like to hear it a little differently sometimes. Instrumental parts balanced differently is not a bad thing if they are good players.

 

[AYanguas]

I’ve spent on the first 5.1 mix, and going to keep reading reports before I spend another dime on this album. But I will likely eventually hear it for free.

I’m just enjoying reading peoples impressions of better fidelity with more speakers, like Atmos. It’s entertaining to me.

Some people doesn't care about stereo. That's good. They really enjoy music listening in mono.

But some other people do enjoy more Stereo. Even some other enjoy much more mch 5.1

Even... there are some other people that enjoy still more immersive 3D sound.

And again: The majority of people just enjoy with mono. They really dont need anything else than an Amazon Echo. And it is a luxury if they have an amazon echo in more than one room.


Conclusion: Are the economical and logistic effort to implement a full Dolby Atmos music room worth? For the people that like it... YES.

 

[AYanguas]

...
I mean the reason is that if the given album is worth hearing again and again then I like to hear it a little differently sometimes. Instrumental parts balanced differently is not a bad thing if they are good players.

I use to listen 5.1 and Atmos sitting in my MLP.

But once, I lay down on the sofa and as I was turned 90 degrees, the pannings from left to right transformed to pannings from rear to front. I nice different experience

 

[quicksrt]

Some people doesn't care about stereo. That's good. They really enjoy music listening in mono.

But some other people do enjoy more Stereo. Even some other enjoy much more mch 5.1

Even... there are some other people that enjoy still more immersive 3D sound.

And again: The majority of people just enjoy with mono. They really dont need anything else than an Amazon Echo. And it is a luxury if they have an amazon echo in more than one room.


Conclusion: Are the economical and logistic effort to implement a full Dolby Atmos music room worth? For the people that like it... YES.

I’m open to reconsider. It would be that there are 100 or more albums out in Atmos, I love them, they are streaming them, and it’s just a few more speakers to install. That may be my future too!

I didn’t even get a 5.1 setup until there were quite a few titles released. In fact by the time I started grabbing 5.1 on discs, the bulk of them were out of print.

So catch me in 5 years, and if a lot of albums are streaming cheaply, and the reports here are all fab, then maybe.

But for now I have a lot of good 5.1 not fully digested. Glad everyone else has gotten through those DVDs and SACDs throughly.

 

[quicksrt]

I use to listen 5.1 and Atmos sitting in my MLP.

But once, I lay down on the sofa and as I was turned 90 degrees, the pannings from left to right transformed to pannings from rear to front. I nice different experience

To take it to the extreme, I’ve listened to Talking Heads 5.1 mixes with surround channels only. This was fun because I know those albums so well, I wanted just the backing parts to hear. It was fabulous. Kinda odd, but wonderfully odd.

 

[AYanguas]

I’m open to reconsider. It would be that there are 100 or more albums out in Atmos, I love them, they are streaming them, and it’s just a few more speakers to install. That may be my future too!

I didn’t even get a 5.1 setup until there were quite a few titles released. In fact by the time I started grabbing 5.1 on discs, the bulk of them were out of print.

So catch me in 5 years, and if a lot of albums are streaming cheaply, and the reports here are all fab, then maybe.

But for now I have a lot of good 5.1 not fully digested. Glad everyone else has gotten through those DVDs and SACDs throughly.

I understand it really good.

It is a matter of if the effort to build it (and resources available to do it) is adequately compensated by the capacity for enjoyment.

 

[Albert Dagger]

It’s the content of the posts which can be entertaining, and/or constructive, not the style.

I don’t think I read an explanation of why you like the Atmos of the Court album more than either 5.1 mixes. I just read that you indeed do. Maybe it’s in another post here I did not read. And I think fidelity was touched on.

And no, not against Atmos or folks who like it. I explained why I’m not going for it at this time, but hope it results in more rock albums coming out in true surround, which it might have already. However Steven Wilson seems to think the surround formats and especially Atmos leaves many in the industry very confused. It’s not yet a clean cut success, at least for music listening is what I gather.

And I’m hardly the only one who is not going for Atmos right now. The really major reason is that I own a massive collection of 4.0 and 5.1 music on discs. Hundreds of titles, all of the DVD-A, and SACD stuff from rock and R&B, etc. just a few classical things I still need from DV. I have everything I wanted, Crimson, XTC, Yes, ELP, Floyd, and on and on. Likely much more than you own. So for me it’s not as convenient as it is for you to head into Atmos now. That’s a big reason too.

I have a 7.1 Chan AVR, so I am not that far from some sort of Atmos. I have high ceilings and could install speakers there. 10 or 15 years ago I might have gone for it.

But anyway, I can be happy with 5.1 because the media is there now and I own it.

I’m entertained with others entertainment of Atmos and their writing on it. Too bad if any are offended by that.

Upgrading it’s a big decision. Personally, I simply did it because I changed house and I took the opportunity to install the height speakers before moving in. I knew it was the only moment to run cables easily. In the previous apartment, I was happy with 5 speakers and was not thinking about upgrading at all.

It’s also true that there aren’t many atmos mixes you can buy. There are many via streaming but most are for artists I don’t know. So, the choice is still limited. I feel the same about 4K movies, love the format but still a limited offer compared to 1080p. Having said that, after the upgrade it’s hard to look back!

 

[GOS]

There are many via streaming but most are for artists I don’t know. So, the choice is still limited.

I've now had an Apple TV along with their streaming service for about 2 weeks at the most. I totally agree with your comment. I'm really not digging the content for the most part. Obviously, it could get much, much better. But, music services are not catering to people my age, that's for sure.

What my comments tell me is, as @Clint Eastwood used to say, "content is king for me"

 

[AYanguas]

Upgrading it’s a big decision.
.....

In my case, as we did a complete reform of the living room, I planned for installing Atmos. Then I discovered by chance the existance of Auro-3D and planned for additional speakers to go full Auro 13.1 with speaker switches, etc. So I decided to go for everything, even if I would not needed. Now I'm glad with all that, and it has happened after beeing retired, so that's also my last hobbie.

But I understand not everyone are in the same circumstances and, even if they wanted, it would not be possible or worth.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I've now had an Apple TV along with their streaming service for about 2 weeks at the most. I totally agree with your comment. I'm really not digging the content for the most part. Obviously, it could get much, much better. But, music services are not catering to people my age, that's for sure.

What my comments tell me is, as @Clint Eastwood used to say, "content is king for me"

Its exactly the same for me. The content is sorely lacking. There are a few gems on Apple though, The EJ, the Gretta van Fleet, Beatles, Harrison, Lennon, Dropkick Murphys (my new fave), Tragically Hip, and a few others. I read the threads where people list what they are listening to on Apple music in Atmos, and occasionally I'll try some of it.... but really? You guys listen to this stuff? Different strokes I guess. Something tells me they like to listen to mixes, not music.

With respect to the comment about music services not catering to your age...
I got an Email from SiriusXM a few days ago asking me to take a survey, promising it would only take 10 minutes. I agreed and the survey started. The first question was my age. I entered 64. It then immediately went to a screen that thanked me for taking the survey.
So I guess Sirius doesn't care how their 64 year old paying customers feel. If I had the chance I would have suggested to them, as I have in the past, to make a dedicated prog channel available. You can find nearly ever genre of music on there except prog. it all falls on deaf ears.