Wanted Tom Waits

[humprof]

I just posted this question in another thread, but it more properly belongs here, I think. (Sorry for the cross-post, mods.)

So let's say I get my hands on a copy of the VHS--or maybe even the Japanese Laserdisc--of Big Time, transferred to DVD-R or otherwise digitized. (@fizzywiggs41 , did you ever find one?) Like the unofficial DVD-V release, which is rare as hen's teeth, the VHS/Beta and the LD are reputed to have been encoded in Dolby Surround--in fact I think it was you who said so, Fizzy--though I don't know if that's ever been independently confirmed. Anyway, my question is this: how could I tell for sure? If I play back this hypothetical copy with Dolby PLII and it sounds good, that might mean it's encoded--or it might just mean that the PLIIx or PLIIz circuit in my AVR is doing a convincing job of "up-converting" it. Or, in that case, maybe I shouldn't ask questions...

 

[atrocity]

So let's say I get my hands on a copy of the VHS--or maybe even the Japanese Laserdisc--of Big Time, transferred to DVD-R or otherwise digitized. (@fizzywiggs41 , did you ever find one?) Like the unofficial DVD-V release, which is rare as hen's teeth, the VHS/Beta and the LD are reputed to have been encoded in Dolby Surround--in fact I think it was you who said so, Fizzy--though I don't know if that's ever been independently confirmed. Anyway, my question is this: how could I tell for sure? If I play back this hypothetical copy with Dolby PLII and it sounds good, that might mean it's encoded--or it might just mean that the PLIIx or PLIIz circuit in my AVR is doing a convincing job of "up-converting" it. Or, in that case, maybe I shouldn't ask questions...

I don't know how you could tell for sure, but pretty much any stereo video release of a film that got a Dolby theatrical release is going to be encoded. That was one of the selling points in the early days of stereo home video: The stereo video tracks were identical to the stereo optical tracks that were used on the film. Creating a non-Dolby soundtrack for home video would actually have been more work.

 

[humprof]

I don't know how you could tell for sure, but pretty much any stereo video release of a film that got a Dolby theatrical release is going to be encoded. That was one of the selling points in the early days of stereo home video: The stereo video tracks were identical to the stereo optical tracks that were used on the film. Creating a non-Dolby soundtrack for home video would actually have been more work.

That's good to know--thanks! I was doing some googling this morning and looking at images uploaded with the four major releases listed on Discogs. The UK VHS doesn't mention Dolby at all--box or tape--although the case for the "unofficial" DVD, released by the same UK company, carries the Dolby logo and explicitly mentions “Dolby Digital 2.0 / 5.1.” The US VHS and the Japan LD, however, merely have the Dolby logo with the words "Dolby System" underneath. (The LD also identifies the soundtrack as "stereo," while the US VHS says "VHS Hi-Fi," which was stereo by definition.) Anyway...sounds like there's good reason to think that all versions are Dolby Surround-encoded.

 

[atrocity]

That's good to know--thanks! I was doing some googling this morning and looking at images uploaded with the four major releases listed on Discogs. The UK VHS doesn't mention Dolby at all--box or tape--although the case for the "unofficial" DVD, released by the same UK company, carries the Dolby logo and explicitly mentions “Dolby Digital 2.0 / 5.1.” The US VHS and the Japan LD, however, merely have the Dolby logo with the words "Dolby System" underneath. (The LD also identifies the soundtrack as "stereo," while the US VHS says "VHS Hi-Fi," which was stereo by definition.) Anyway...sounds like there's good reason to think that all versions are Dolby Surround-encoded.

Yeah, the video companies used to be pretty sloppy about Dolby labels. "Dolby System" is an appropriate thing to put on a pre-recorded tape with Dolby B but doesn't make any sense on a Laserdisc. They definitely used to do that, though. Just to make it even more confusing, analog Laserdiscs had an optional noise reduction system of their own, so you could potentially have a disc with that "Dolby System" logo on it that actually had CX encoding. And you could have a VHS (and maybe Beta, I'm not sure) that had Dolby B noise reduction on the linear tracks which were also Dolby Surround encoded.

My brain hurts.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I just posted this question in another thread, but it more properly belongs here, I think. (Sorry for the cross-post, mods.)

So let's say I get my hands on a copy of the VHS--or maybe even the Japanese Laserdisc--of Big Time, transferred to DVD-R or otherwise digitized. (@fizzywiggs41 , did you ever find one?) Like the unofficial DVD-V release, which is rare as hen's teeth, the VHS/Beta and the LD are reputed to have been encoded in Dolby Surround--in fact I think it was you who said so, Fizzy--though I don't know if that's ever been independently confirmed. Anyway, my question is this: how could I tell for sure? If I play back this hypothetical copy with Dolby PLII and it sounds good, that might mean it's encoded--or it might just mean that the PLIIx or PLIIz circuit in my AVR is doing a convincing job of "up-converting" it. Or, in that case, maybe I shouldn't ask questions...

No still lookin and hoping. Had a great transfer from cable in stereo (surround) played by MuchMusic the equivalent to MTV.............MTV may have also been involved , but I'm not certain.(That Laserdisc would be the way to go I think humprof.

The film credits have the late 80's "Dolby Stereo" as did many dolby surround films of that time. And I believe there is a credit to a Dolby sound engineer who provided or worked the encoder for the film's soundtrack.
No actual surround mention , but that lack of was common back then (surround and quad were still a dirty word)

That film which is a unique Music Film fwiw sounded great with my Fosgate.
I believe Talking Heads Stop Making Sense 85 edition is similar in that there are no surround indications , again just Dolby Stereo.


I'm still hoping like hell , that one day soon Tom and Island Visual get around to releasing a digital surround .

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Additionally, I had a copy (rented) years ago of the VHS HIFI which I tranferred to Beta hifi.

Sounded great. It was for sale, used as it was , however to purchase that used original tape was mega bucks (around $130.00 !!!!)
I think it is kinda rare , nowadays.



Sorry that I could not be of more positive news , regarding "Big Time ".

 

[Greg Z]

This is a release I always hoped would get an official DVD and then Blu-ray release. If anyone has plans on buying the laserdisc, it will
be expensive if you can even find it and it has hard encoded Japanese subtitles. The unofficial DVD (at least the one I found) has
mediocre audio: Dolby Digital @ 192kbps. I finally gave up and transferred my VHS tape myself. The audio definitely decodes
using the Dolby Surround option on my receiver. It's about as discrete as you would expect from a 1988 release.
I went with authoring it to Blu-ray so I could keep the 24/96 LPCM audio I captured. It makes a big difference to my ears.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

This is a release I always hoped would get an official DVD and then Blu-ray release. If anyone has plans on buying the laserdisc, it will
be expensive if you can even find it and it has hard encoded Japanese subtitles. The unofficial DVD (at least the one I found) has
mediocre audio: Dolby Digital @ 192kbps. I finally gave up and transferred my VHS tape myself. The audio definitely decodes
using the Dolby Surround option on my receiver. It's about as discrete as you would expect from a 1988 release.
I went with authoring it to Blu-ray so I could keep the 24/96 LPCM audio I captured. It makes a big difference to my ears.

That looks like one of the better ways to get Waits. The DVD or Bluray ??........well lets just say... the Waits killing me.

 

[Greg Z]

I did some more experimenting with my Big Time VHS video.
I took the 24/96 LPCM Stereo audio I tranferred from the tape
and opened it in Adobe Audition and ran the QS decoding script.
I ended up with a quadraphonic version of the movie that I think
is much better than using PLII on my receiver to decode it.
When I look at the waveforms there is definitely different stuff
going on in all 4 channels. Even at the beginning of the tape
when the "Fries Home Video" logo appears, the audio starts
with kettle drums in the front channels for a few seconds
followed by horns in all 4 channels.

 

[humprof]

Those of you on the Anti Records mailing list will have seen this email yesterday about a 10-minute "video essay," "Tom Waits: The Acting Years," done in honor of the great man's 70th birthday.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Those of you on the Anti Records mailing list will have seen this email yesterday about a 10-minute "video essay," "Tom Waits: The Acting Years," done in honor of the great man's 70th birthday.

That's a very good Jim Jarmusch movie, Down By Law , mit Tom in it, oh and Lurie and Roberto Begnini as well.


I just saw a cd of his Amsterdam concert from FM Amsterdam (2004 , I think).

 

[Fourplay]

Those of you on the Anti Records mailing list will have seen this email yesterday about a 10-minute "video essay," "Tom Waits: The Acting Years," done in honor of the great man's 70th birthday.

Hey, this is a very cool video. Thanks for posting the link. As a big fan I have seen many of the films included in the clips, but have missed probably as many.

I have been silent on this thread because I do not have Big Time in any form. Some one lent me the VHS once, and I could probably borrow it again, but it sounds like enough others have it so that this would not be needed.

It is a disappointment that really nothing of Waits' music is released in surround. I had high hopes for the movie "One From The Heart," which also happens to be one of my favorite records by him, but his contributions are rendered in stereo, even as the soundtrack is said to be surround.

On the other hand, his older work (which is my favorite period) contains my least favorite studio albums. I find some of the Bones Howe arrangements to be schmaltzy. Would rather have had his live band making his studio records. Now his later albums, like Mule Variations or even Swordfishtrombones would have plenty to work with in surround.

Anyway, glad to see a Waits thread poking around the ol' QQ!