HiRez Poll Porcupine Tree - IN ABSENTIA [DVD-A/BDA]

[LuvMyQuad]

I don't have/need a sub, so I have never noticed the "phase" issue. Really liked this album for a long time. 10/10 from me..

I believe you would have the phase issue regardless if you had a subwoofer in the system or not. With no sub, the LFE channel would just be folded into the L/R mains. If the LFE signal is out of phase it will cancel bass information when it combines with similar bass information from the main L/R channels. Same with the center channel. Out of phase bass can cancel whether it is combined electronically or acoustically.

 

[Ge Someone]

With the new info about the center channel being inverted, wouldn't the phase cancellation result in lesser dynamics to some degree?[..] would be interested in the results if someone else has the corrected version and can check it.

It makes no difference, I don't even think the Dynamic Range Meter uses more than just (front) Left and Right.
Your links to the database show also that the loud mastering/mix was only an issue in the original stereo version, which is also on the DVD-A, beside the newer surround mix. I found the 5.1 master always very acceptable for this style of music and the mix is great.

 

[JediJoker]

It makes no difference, I don't even think the Dynamic Range Meter uses more than just (front) Left and Right.

Incorrect. The foobar2000 plugin and Jriver tool—the only versions of the TT DR Meter to allow more than two channels—measure across all channels, not just FL/FR.

 

[HomerJAU]

...
I would agree that the first half of the album is much stronger than the second. The transition to the much darker/proggier second half is a bit jarring at first, but I think I'm starting to get it. The first half is just so great though- "Blackest Eyes", "Trains", and "The Sound Of Muzak" all could've been hits IMO.
...

Over time I’ve found I enjoy the last part of In Absentia more than the first. I’ve had my phase corrected album playing in my car recently and really like the bonus tracks too. I’ve even just skipped the opening few tracks. I’d love PT to have a crack at another album or SW to do more of this style (Psychedelic Grunge?)

This is my favourite PT album for sure. I’d have it in my ‘surround desert island’ box for both content and mix.

 

[sjcorne]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PORCUPINE-...880198?hash=item3d717ad446:g:pfEAAOSwvylbV2UB

Cheapest I've seen this in a while...it's in the wrong kind of packaging but the disc is correct. Definitely worth a listen if you don't yet have it!

 

[warp2600]

The center channel is also inverted ... I noticed a huge difference once I ripped my copy and corrected the inverted phase. From when I first heard it I thought it sounded superb for clarity and mix but always felt it sounded very weak in the bass department. I had always put it down to me not using a subwoofer but then I read about the phase issues and it made complete sense. It's amazing how often this kind of thing happens during mastering/authoring.

How exactly does one correct the inverted phase?
I can rip the dvd-a by using Dvd Audio Extractor. Now, when I open a mch .flac file in Audacity, do I select a channel (3rd and 4th for central and sub) and click 'Invert' in the Effect menu? Then save the file. I think I will do that for one or two tracks to to see (or rather HEAR) how they sound compared to the original dvd-a.

I voted '10' by the way. Amazing music and superb surround mix. Sound quality is very good. I don't think it is too compressed at all. For this type of music you need the oomph. I wouldn't have guessed any phase issues if not read about them in forums like this one. Plenty of bass for me.

 

[edisonbaggins]

How exactly does one correct the inverted phase?
I can rip the dvd-a by using Dvd Audio Extractor. Now, when I open a mch .flac file in Audacity, do I select a channel (3rd and 4th for central and sub) and click 'Invert' in the Effect menu? Then save the file. I think I will do that for one or two tracks to to see (or rather HEAR) how they sound compared to the original dvd-a.

I voted '10' by the way. Amazing music and superb surround mix. Sound quality is very good. I don't think it is too compressed at all. For this type of music you need the oomph. I wouldn't have guessed any phase issues if not read about them in forums like this one. Plenty of bass for me.

Yeah, man. Original disc mix sounds good to me, but interested to hear back from you. Does phase correcting make it sound super awesomer???

 

[Simon_LDT]

How exactly does one correct the inverted phase?
I can rip the dvd-a by using Dvd Audio Extractor. Now, when I open a mch .flac file in Audacity, do I select a channel (3rd and 4th for central and sub) and click 'Invert' in the Effect menu? Then save the file. I think I will do that for one or two tracks to to see (or rather HEAR) how they sound compared to the original dvd-a.

That's correct from what I remember.

Don't know how you guys can continue listening to the original with phase issues, once fixed it sounds so much better. The big difference for me though could be lack of sub so the issue is more compounded my end.

 

[bluelightning]

With all this talk of phase inversion, I decided to give it a look and convert the files myself in Audacity. After looking at the first track, to me is clear that the center channel is inverted, however it is not exactly clear that subwoofer channel (CH4) is inverted (or only inverted for that matter). It appears to be phase or time shifted as well. I will check on it later tonight to find out more and calculate the time delay. May be the time delay is present on purpose to account for additional delays through the subwoofer chain ?

 

[warp2600]

Yeah, man. Original disc mix sounds good to me, but interested to hear back from you. Does phase correcting make it sound super awesomer???

I have ripped, inverted (ch3 and ch4) and exported the first 5 tracks on In Absentia saved as 24bit 96kHz mch flac files and then played them back on my blu-ray player.
Well, they didn't sound better. Actually, I think the dvd-a has more low end, more punch and more definition. It may be the difference between my players or how they play back the 2 different formats. Unfortunately my Sony blu-ray player does not play dvd-a discs, so I can't compare the dvd-a with the flac files played in the same device. The HDMI cables are the same for the 2 players, though.
However, if Wilson does release a new, corrected version, I will buy it.

 

[Juggsnelson]

A VERY solid effort from these guys. Wilson's 5.1 mix is great as expected. Great bonus tracks and videos in 5.1 too. A must own if you like the band. I voted a 9.

 

[sjcorne]

Wilson's 5.1 mix is great as expected.

Wilson actually didn’t do the 5.1 on this or Deadwing, Elliot Scheiner did.

SW’s first PT 5.1 was Stupid Dream.

 

[The56Kid]

Wilson actually didn’t do the 5.1 on this or Deadwing, Elliot Scheiner did.

SW’s first PT 5.1 was Stupid Dream.

It was Wilson’s exposure to Scheiner’s 5.1 mix here that springboarded him to the surround mix genius he is today. Thanks Elliot!

 

[Juggsnelson]

Wilson actually didn’t do the 5.1 on this or Deadwing, Elliot Scheiner did.

SW’s first PT 5.1 was Stupid Dream.

Duh...thanks for that!

 

[The56Kid]

The talk about the delayed release of the new In Absentia got me to give the original DVD-A a listen. I loved the CD when it first came out and immediately jumped on the DVD-A the day it was released at my local Circuit City (remember those?).

I still consider this a fantastic 5.1 experience at every level. Scheiner’s work here is highly immersive and makes great discrete use of the surrounds to cocoon the listener in pure sonic bliss. The musicianship is simply superb and I find that I like every single song. Blows my mind that I never voted on this one, but even in the face of many great surround titles since its original release in 2003, In Absentia still merits a 10 from me. Desert Island disc!

 

[Fourpointone]

With all this talk of phase inversion, I decided to give it a look and convert the files myself in Audacity. After looking at the first track, to me is clear that the center channel is inverted, however it is not exactly clear that subwoofer channel (CH4) is inverted (or only inverted for that matter). It appears to be phase or time shifted as well. I will check on it later tonight to find out more and calculate the time delay. May be the time delay is present on purpose to account for additional delays through the subwoofer chain ?

I've just had a look at the old disc for the first time and I agree! The centre channel is clearly inverted so that's an easy fix in software. However I don't believe the sub channel is inverted - it seems to me that it is the right way up but delayed. You never came back with a figure, bluelightning, but I judge it to be 10ms so I have advanced the sub channel by 10ms on all tracks and it now looks right to me.

That said, there isn't much information in the sub channel so I wouldn't expect it to make much of a difference. But correcting the centre channel should be a significant gain.

Even after these fixes, I must say the peaks on the main channels look slightly out of synch to me in many places, meaning the fronts seem slightly out of synch with the rears. I haven't touched this because it would be very time consuming to synch all six channels accurately and I'm not even certain it's an error. It would be interesting to see whether the same condition exists with the new version but I'm not planning to buy the entire box set just to find out!

 

[Simon_LDT]

Yeah I remember reading about this time delay. My playing copy now just has the 2 channels phase corrected and I didn't mess with anything else. It does sound better but it's not a revelation and still sounds a bit bass "light" to me.

I would guess the channel delays are there on purpose but no way to know for sure unless ES or SW explain it.

I hope we don't get an Opeth "Pale Communion" debacle where the initial press had inverted channels and then when a replacement program was done they fixed 1 channel but not the other, leaving us with 2 discs that are flawed.

 

[bluelightning]

I've just had a look at the old disc for the first time and I agree! The centre channel is clearly inverted so that's an easy fix in software. However I don't believe the sub channel is inverted - it seems to me that it is the right way up but delayed. You never came back with a figure, bluelightning, but I judge it to be 10ms so I have advanced the sub channel by 10ms on all tracks and it now looks right to me.

That said, there isn't much information in the sub channel so I wouldn't expect it to make much of a difference. But correcting the centre channel should be a significant gain.

Even after these fixes, I must say the peaks on the main channels look slightly out of synch to me in many places, meaning the fronts seem slightly out of synch with the rears. I haven't touched this because it would be very time consuming to synch all six channels accurately and I'm not even certain it's an error. It would be interesting to see whether the same condition exists with the new version but I'm not planning to buy the entire box set just to find out!

I either forgot to calculate the delay or post it. I played around with the delay and couldn't really tell much of a difference anyway.
I agree with you, I am not about ready to get a box set to find out.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I agree with you, I am not about ready to get a box set to find out.

T.O.M.B.S.

Tired of mega box sets...

 

[Beefalo]

There is a DVDA on eBay now. Will the phase issue be so significant that I shouldn't buy?