100 Columbia (and associated) SQ titles are/were available digitally!

[Old Quad Guy]

Well, it's a 5.1 mix, but it's not one that respects the quad mix, and in fact seems to be entirely missing the elements from the rear channels of the quad mix in some cases. I mostly wonder if we should be properly considering them making the quad mix available digitally at all.

Well, that is some of the problems with original Sony SACD releases. Some titles were the original mix, with added center, that can be switched off, and other titles where the mix was ruined. The O'jays is supposed to be original Quad mix, along with Isley Brothers (with swapped channels on 3+3). We were able to figure this out on these titles, but there are other titles we may not be familiar with. I didn't listen to as much Classical music back in the day, as I do now.

So if a mix actually has been destroyed, remixed, no way to get it back, then of course it would be good try to get D~V to get us the original mix. What we need to do, perhaps in another thread, is list which early Sony titles have the Quad mix intact, and those that have been ruined by remix. Can't imagine the list being too long or hard to figure out.

But speaking of the "Concerto for Orchestra," we also have this version, which has an original Quad mix from the 1970s, but was not able to get a Quad release at the time. If I understand correctly.
https://www.amazon.com/Bela-Bartok-...ion/dp/B06ZZ8PNVS?ref_=mw_olp_product_details

 

[sjcorne]

The O'jays is supposed to be original Quad mix, along with Isley Brothers (with swapped channels on 3+3).

All those diagonal pans on Isley Bros are actually intentional - the SQ LP decodes the same way.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I agree with you. I had the record back then and the SACD today also. But in endless threads here, it's said that the 3+3 channels are swapped on the SACD. So I don't know.

 

[ubertrout]

Well, that is some of the problems with original Sony SACD releases. Some titles were the original mix, with added center, that can be switched off, and other titles where the mix was ruined. The O'jays is supposed to be original Quad mix, along with Isley Brothers (with swapped channels on 3+3). We were able to figure this out on these titles, but there are other titles we may not be familiar with. I didn't listen to as much Classical music back in the day, as I do now.

So if a mix actually has been destroyed, remixed, no way to get it back, then of course it would be good try to get D~V to get us the original mix. What we need to do, perhaps in another thread, is list which early Sony titles have the Quad mix intact, and those that have been ruined by remix. Can't imagine the list being too long or hard to figure out.

But speaking of the "Concerto for Orchestra," we also have this version, which has an original Quad mix from the 1970s, but was not able to get a Quad release at the time. If I understand correctly.
https://www.amazon.com/Bela-Bartok-...ion/dp/B06ZZ8PNVS?ref_=mw_olp_product_details

The Kubelik is a great performance, but I'm lukewarm on the mix, which is pretty tame. It's also transferred at a really low level and needs to be seriously cranked to sound good. There's a lot of other good options for the Concerto for Orchestra too - Reiner's Classic version in RCA Living Stereo and a number of good modern options. But that risks getting off-track. My point was only that (1) part of another Columbia quad LP made it to digital (the Miraculous Mandarin Suite) and (2) Sony's multichannel program was problematic for classical.

I think the original quad tapes exist for Sony, I just think the powers that be didn't want to use them in the early 00s, and preferred a much tamer front-heavy mix. In some cases where only stereo had ever been released, it's a definite upgrade (Bernstein's classic recordings of Copland for instance, from 3-channel tapes), but it's a downgrade from the quad mixes usually. And it's much more than just the Bartok disc - I have yet to see evidence that any of the Sony single-layer issues use the quad mixes.

Speaking of mixes that have been released, side 4 of the 2-album set M2-34583 was released on a D-V SACD (it's the Alto Rhapsody of Brahms, packaged with the Maazel recording of Ein Heldenleben).

And, being even more annoying, if we're counting later 5.0 mixes, KMQ-31919 and MQ-33532 were both released in 5.0 as part of the complete Japan SACD set of Bernstein's Mahler cycle for Columbia, which were all sourced from the original multitracks. The Mahler 2nd, also with Bernstein, is actually a different performance than the JSACD, filmed/recorded live, and the DVD release has a DTS track - no clue how it relates to the quad LP: https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/cat/0734089

TL ; DR - classical collecting is complicated and annoying.

 

[fredblue]

And it's much more than just the Bartok disc - I have yet to see evidence that any of the Sony single-layer issues use the quad mixes.

is the E. Power Biggs Bach Toccata @ Freiburg SACD the original Quad mix?
i never got the SQ or Q8 to cross-reference.

 

[JonUrban]

....TL ; DR - classical collecting is complicated and annoying.

and confusing for those who already have no clue!

 

[sjcorne]

is the E. Power Biggs Bach Toccata @ Freiburg SACD the original Quad mix?
i never got the SQ or Q8 to cross-reference.

I've got the Q8 - have yet to record it in. I thought the consensus was that the rears have been lowered to some degree on the SACD?

 

[fredblue]

I've got the Q8 - have yet to record it in. I thought the consensus was that the rears have been lowered to some degree on the SACD?

not sure a consensus has been reached yet..? hope you can record your tape in so a consensus can be reached.. soon!

 

[ubertrout]

not sure a consensus has been reached yet..? hope you can record your tape in so a consensus can be reached.. soon!

There's a thread here where a lot of this is discussed: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...orchestra-mq-maq-32132-q8-vs-sony-sacd.25590/

 

[fredblue]

There's a thread here where a lot of this is discussed: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...orchestra-mq-maq-32132-q8-vs-sony-sacd.25590/

gorrit! reddit
sadly no consensus therein on the true discreteness of the E Power of Tower Tomato and Fudge mix!

man i shouldn't have skipped lunch today..Toccata and Fugue!

 

[sjcorne]

not sure a consensus has been reached yet..? hope you can record your tape in so a consensus can be reached.. soon!

There's a thread here where a lot of this is discussed: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...orchestra-mq-maq-32132-q8-vs-sony-sacd.25590/

Consensus (hopefully) coming soon...