Beck, Bogert & Appice in SACD Surround Sound from Sony Japan

[JonUrban]

FINALLY received my copy of BB&A today from CDJapan.

My first impression: Worth EVERY penny. The unique packaging is sublime. SONY went all out for these reissues......

I agree. Like the Quadio Chicago, these two discs along with the earlier Jeff Beck Blow by Blow with the same packaging were assembled with love and care by someone at Sony who holds the quads in high regard. Here's looking to more reissues from them. It would be great to get some of the Columbia quads that Sony might not be able to license to other labels due to contractual language but can issue on their own - like maybe the Paul Simon's? BOTW? Aerosmiths? etc...

 

[4-earredwonder]

Couple of quick Questions please..

1.) Is the MultiCh on these authored as 4.0, 4.1, 5.0 or 5.1..?
2.) Are the Stereo Redbook and/or Stereo SACD tracks SQ-encoded, or fold downs of the Surround..?

Thank you!

Adam, according to my OPPO BDP~105, it indicates 5.1 [for the BB&A SACD]

As for your second question......Well, you'll just have to consult the Oracles:teleport:as [1] I can't read Japanese and [2] I don't have have a Surround Master to make that determination.

Just Buy IT. The packaging alone is worth the price of admission. The pics don't do it justice. You'll probably end up having it framed to sit alongside your bronzed, teeny~weeny baby shoes.:ugham:

 

[timbre4]

Can the SACD player report anything other than 5.1 for the multichannel layer? These quads are after the fact.....


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[4-earredwonder]

Can the SACD player report anything other than 5.1 for the multichannel layer? These quads are after the fact.....


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Good question. After I inserted the BB&A SACD, I immediately placed the L&M AF QUAD SACD of FULL SAIL into the OPPO and it read 5.0 which as we all know is 4.0. So, who knows?

 

[timbre4]

I think we know. SACD knows three things in general: the user is using the stereo CD layer, the stereo SACD layer or the multichannel SACD layer.

The idea of putting 4.0 quad on SACD discs developed well after the players were designed.

Was curious to see if any players got more specific than that.


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[4-earredwonder]

I think we know. SACD knows three things in general: the user is using the stereo CD layer, the stereo SACD layer or the multichannel SACD layer.

The idea of putting 4.0 quad on SACD discs developed well after the players were designed.

Was curious to see if any players got more specific than that.


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With that in mind, I wonder if the next generation of Universal 4K players will incorporate 4.0 into their design. Probably a good question to pose to OPPO since unlike a lot of the Japanese manufacturers they have a great customer service department.

 

[timbre4]

I think it's more up to the disc to tell the player; given the age of the SACD spec it's not likely to change. True 5.1 and 5.1 with two null channels look the same to the player.

Minor nit in the scheme of things and I'd wager no one is looking back.




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[4-earredwonder]

I think it's more up to the disc to tell the player; given the age of the SACD spec it's not likely to change. True 5.1 and 5.1 with two null channels look the same to the player.

Minor nit in the scheme of things and I'd wager no one is looking back.




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What I do know is that my player does recognize 5.0 on many classical SACD releases that DO omit the .1 LFE channel. So why it can't distinguish 4.0 is a good question, IMO, to pose to OPPO for future generations of Universal players. IMO, no question is a stupid question [although that statement can be debated, as well].

 

[timbre4]

Probably because such 5.0 authoring was a reality at the time, unlike 4.0. I believe when Loggins & Messina reports 5.0, it's doing its best and that is limited to knowing presence or absence of the .1 LFE.


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[4-earredwonder]

Probably because such 5.0 authoring was a reality at the time, unlike 4.0. I believe when Loggins & Messina reports 5.0, it's doing its best and that is limited to knowing presence or absence of the .1 LFE.


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It should be interesting to see what the newer (and perhaps LAST) generation of 4K BD players unveil. 4.0, IMO, should be on the slate of SACD upgrades since there have been quite a few 4.0 SACD releases lately but whether Oppo or other disc player manufacturers consider this an important feature (or a moot point) is up for grabs. Probably would only entail a simple upgrade.

As always, stay tuned.

 

[fredblue]

Adam, according to my OPPO BDP~105, it indicates 5.1 [for the BB&A SACD]

As for your second question......Well, you'll just have to consult the Oracles:teleport:as [1] I can't read Japanese and [2] I don't have have a Surround Master to make that determination.

Just Buy IT. The packaging alone is worth the price of admission. The pics don't do it justice. You'll probably end up having it framed to sit alongside your bronzed, teeny~weeny baby shoes.:ugham:

Thanks Ralph Is there anything coming out of the Centre channel or LFE?

EDIT: I just remembered you aren't running a Centre speaker, sorry!

EDIT 2: I'm just going to have to take your advice and "Buy IT", aren't I..!?

 

[timbre4]

Obviously.

Jeff Beck is playing in Nashville tonight. I'd be there except Bryan Ferry was just last night. He won't be playing any BBA tracks as that's off the table in this post Blow By Blow world. I've always considered Lady as a guitar tour-de-force in the meat and potatoes rock format. Thanks to quad system joysticks that allow quick channel isolation one can zero in on specific guitar parts easily. Listening to just the rears is amazing. Then you bring the rhythm section back in, the structure he built simply towers over you. The BBA record is not perfect but does provide classics like Superstition (Beck played on Stevie Wonder's original version).

Would love to hear more of the unfinished BBA II (beyond Jizz Whizz on Beckology), probably never happen. At some point Beck simply lost the plot with BBA, then amazingly rebounds with one of the most cherished guitar albums of all time. He is easily forgiven and revered!


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[4-earredwonder]

Thanks Ralph Is there anything coming out of the Centre channel or LFE?

EDIT: I just remembered you aren't running a Centre speaker, sorry!

EDIT 2: I'm just going to have to take your advice and "Buy IT", aren't I..!?

If you don't ADAM, your sordid existence would be INCOMPLETE :ugham: and your teeny~weeny bronzed baby shoes will have to collect dust....ALONE!

 

[popshop]

I saw Jeff Beck last year in Denver. It wasn't the best band, not the best venue, not the best songs...but it didn't matter. For me, Jeff Beck is the best guitarist alive.

 

[Snood]

Jon - Jeff Beck Group "Orange" Please let us know besides the packaging, if this is a different Quad mix or better source or whatever than the AF release.

Got the BBA on the way, but confused over the Orange release.

In other words..........Snood very confused @:

 

[rtbluray]

Someone tell me this: If you play a 3-channel SACD mix, does it just show three channels on the receiver or 5?
I always thought that 5.0 authoring was a mandatory minimum for Multichannel SACD layers, regardless of whether all 5 channels actually output sound or not.
And anyway, who gives a rat's ass about any of this? If the center channel is completely silent on a Multichannel SACD, then it's a true Quadraphonic SACD, regardless of whether the center channel indicator lights up on the receiver, and that's all that should really matter, right?

 

[fredblue]

Here is the answer to my own question!
(Thank you to Mr. A. N. Onymous. Ah you know who you are! Anyway I'm hugely grateful.)

The Quad on this new SACD from Japan is a 5.1 presentation, with faux Centre & LFE..
(from top to bottom;
1 = Front Left,
2 = Front Right,
3 = Centre,
4 = LFE,
5 = Surround Left,
6 = Surround Right..)

 

[fredblue]

The good news is.. it sounds v. good generally, warmer and darker than the old DTS CD (which is bright and bass shy by comparison, to my ears) the artificially created Centre channel is not hugely invasive or particularly destructive of the surround soundfield imho.. do I prefer the Centre & LFE dispensed with altogether? Yes but that's a personal thing isn't it? The LFE is pretty loud and imho unnecessary (oh and Front L & R appear to be clipping ever so slightly, though audibly no problem) but again its potentially all more of a taste/subjective thing I guess, you can rip it and reverse engineer it out or just leave it, the option is there.

 

[fredblue]

Someone tell me this: If you play a 3-channel SACD mix, does it just show three channels on the receiver or 5?
I always thought that 5.0 authoring was a mandatory minimum for Multichannel SACD layers, regardless of whether all 5 channels actually output sound or not.
And anyway, who gives a rat's ass about any of this? If the center channel is completely silent on a Multichannel SACD, then it's a true Quadraphonic SACD, regardless of whether the center channel indicator lights up on the receiver, and that's all that should really matter, right?

I don't have any definitive answers for you personally on this Ryan but suffice to say when I pop in an SACD I know to only have 3-channel content, I get this info showing a 5.0 mix on my BDP;

 

[timbre4]

I don't have any definitive answers for you personally on this Ryan but suffice to say when I pop in an SACD I know to only have 3-channel content, I get this info showing a 5.0 mix on my BDP;

That follows what I said earlier; the player knows 1) multichannel layer in use + 2) no LFE output detected. Thanks for posting that the BBA is 5.1 (sort of).