HiRez Poll R.E.M. - MONSTER [DVD-A/Blu-Ray Audio]

[Franklin]

... Tongue Very good. Decent cohesive mix. Not a favourite tune on the album though.

I Took Your Name Good. In danger of being over front heavy at the beginning for my liking, and a guitar in the very much in the left rear sounds a little too dry for my liking.

Let Me In Very good. Don't particularly like the track, but plenty of surround stuff going on. Organ/keyboard rear left. Tambourine rear right, strongly isolated, but not anything like as jarring as the triangle on Stand.

Circus Envy Very good. Quite like the vocals front and rear. Not familiar with the track though - may not have listened to the stereo mix all the way through before. Some decent Mike backing vocal levels at some points, although I did wonder if they were a tad muted in another part of the track. I like the sound of the drums/percussion. Should there be a bass line?

You Good. Not enough bass in the mix for my liking. I really like the guitar sound that's mainly in the front right, but not keen on the domination of the guitar part on the left side.

A bit of a gap before the annoying audio menu returns. A consistent standard most of the way through and way better than the mix of Green, but it's not my favourite R.E.M. album by some distance, even though the Warner years are generally my favourite of the two label eras. I've weighted the score a little on that basis too.

I'm going to give this a five and a half rounded up to six. I'm not keen on the album, and I would have liked Strange Currencies to be more faithful to the feel of the stereo mix.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I are not alone. Another solid 10 for da boyz.
Congrats, Mr. ES.

 

[Albert Dagger]

I've listened to this twice during the last week. I was a bit disappointed at the beginning of my first listen, as I thought the first tracks didn't really improve on the stereo mix. The tremolo effect on What's the frequency Kennett is placed every time in a different speaker, and it doesn't have either depth or presence. I would have preferred a stronger presence, perhaps with a bit of panning applied. That's the signature effect of that track, in my opinion! Once I got to Kind of comedy things started to improve. After two listens, I can say that Strange Currencies, Tongue and Bang and Blame are the real standouts for me. Sure, Kind of Comedy and I don't sleep, I dream, are also good. But not great. Then, there's an unforgivable issue with the vocals in Let me in. I don't know what' happened there. Overall, it's great to have this DVD-A, and I have enjoyed it quite a lot, but it's not a perfect mix and I don't believe it deserves more than a 7. I do like the music though!!!

 

[proufo]

I think this is an album that I will listen mostly in stereo. So far I haven't done it, but the mch mix is so blah (or you can say "faithful to the original") that gets to be distracting.

 

[Albert Dagger]

I think this is an album that I will listen mostly in stereo. So far I haven't done it, but the mch mix is so blah (or you can say "faithful to the original") that gets to be distracting.

I think it really works for a few songs, such as Tongue or Strange Currencies, which sound quite different than the stereo mix. It’s good for those tracks to open up the sound field a little and have more instrument separation. Bang and blame is also good, but as times I find the mix so discrete that instruments lose a bit of depth. But I’m happy to have the DVD-a.

 

[sjcorne]

I think it really works for a few songs, such as Tongue or Strange Currencies, which sound quite different than the stereo mix. It’s good for those tracks to open up the sound field a little and have more instrument separation. Bang and blame is also good, but at times I find the mix so discrete that instruments lose a bit of depth. But I’m happy to have the DVD-a.

I've got the whole series, and I definitely think that the heavier tracks in their catalog have the weakest surround mixes, likely for the reason you mention. Slower tracks like "Suspicion" and "Leaving New York" are amazing in 5.1, but "Pop Song 89" and "Orange Crush" sound sort of disjointed at times with certain parts either buried or overexposed.

As their style shifts away from the harder-rocking stuff to the more melodic arrangements of the later albums, the surround treatment improves. For Up and Around The Sun, I'd say the 5.1 mixes are the definitive versions.

 

[Strilo]

I do love all of the REM surround mixes, I think I have everything except Document, but the heavier albums (like Monster or New Adventures in Hi Fi) don't have as discrete of surround mixes. However, I submit from an artistic standpoint of the sound of these albums, the surround mixes work mostly as they should. I don't think I want the more "studio" approach of Up or Reveal or Around the Sun for the surround mixes of Monster or NAIHF. I submit that approach would not work for the music.

 

[rtbluray]

First post of this thread has been updated to reflect the reissue of this 5.1 surround mix on Blu-Ray.

 

[Strilo]

So the mix is confirmed as the Scheiner mix?

 

[LennonCobain]

So the mix is confirmed as the Scheiner mix?

Yes, apparently the mastering is different but the mix is the same.

 

[Albert Dagger]

So the mix is confirmed as the Scheiner mix?

I've read on SHFs that the mastering is different (or perhaps it's a flat transfer), but it's the same mix. It's also worth noting the blu-ray includes a very dynamic version of the original stereo mix (likely a flat transfer as well).

 

[Strilo]

I’m excited for mine to come in then!

 

[jsulzinger]

On my system, the center channel is so low (almost non existent) that I would guess it is a mastering error

 

[ngv99]

I just picked up a used copy of the original DVD-A from eBay. I went with that as I really did not like the 25th anniversary mix (though I confess I only heard a few tracks of that in stereo). I voted an 8 based on the original mix DVD-A. I thought it was very well done and my sub was absolutely rumbling through most of it. Crush with Eyeliner and Strange Currencies were the highlights for me. Some of the guitar effects during WTFK seemed to have gotten buried a bit. Overall happy and it'll get a lot of rotation here.

 

[Strilo]

I loathed the new stereo mix of Monster. I will never listen to it again. I admit I did not listen much to the new surround mix, I do love the Elliot Scheiner mix from the DVD-A. I will always listen to that version.

 

[marpow]

I own both DVD-A and BD-A. My vote on this poll is an 8, it is based on the DVD-A, the superior 2005 release over the 2019 Blu Ray.
Both discs are 24/96, 5.1 and have very similar Dynamic Range with the Blu Ray just a smidge higher.
The reason I like the DVD-A better is the fidelity is better and stronger, the Blu Ray is quieter and as others have said parts are more recessed and don't come forward. The reason I like Monster is the tremolo/heavy electric guitar effect, which I hear better on the DVD-A.
The reason I gave the DVD-A a 8 is because it's not deserving of anything higher with so much surround music to compare to.
I really like all the songs and is an enjoyable to listen to.
The Blu Ray I would give a 6, mainly because of poor fidelity.
If you are a R.E.M. fan the DVD-A would be real good for your surround collection. The Blu Ray with it's bonuses and video collection is also good for the R.E.M. fan.

 

[Sam]

Could anyone report on the video quality of "Road Movie" and the music videos? Sorry if off-topic, but I couldn't find the info elsewhere. Is it HD video or is it SD (DVD quality)?

 

[Marplot]

DVD quality

 

[Marplot]

Three audio choices

 

[Dynamic Editor]

On my system, the center channel is so low (almost non existent) that I would guess it is a mastering error

I believe you are right, actually. I actually think the center and LFE are 20dB too quiet, at least on the Blu-Ray

Why I think the center and LFE on the Monster 5.1 mix are 20dB too quiet​

Look at the mixing philosophy of Scheiner for the R.E.M. mixes. Compare, say, how "Drive" off of the Automatic for the People DVD-A is presented (pictured left) compared to how "Bang and Blame" off the 25th anniversary Blu Ray of Monster is presented (pictured right).Both the center channel and the LFE channel and LFE channel of the "Bang and Blame" mix are quiet to the point where they might as well not be there.

BUT, look how it appears if you amplify the center channel and LFE of "Bang and Blame" by 20dB:
Why 20dB though? My suspicion is the center channel and LFE were accidentally mastered with the 10dB headroom of LFE channels accidentally and twice. At this point, one of you might ask: "Yes, that is an interesting theory... but how do you know it's 20dB too quiet specifically?"

Look at the start of the "Drive" mix. At the start, you can see that there is some audio playing in the center that seems to resemble what is playing in the front, but quieter. That audio appears to be about 6dB quieter. The same seems to be the case for the Monster mix, provided that you amplify the center channel by 20dB.

See how it looks if you amplify the center channel of "Drive" by 6dB (pictured left) and the center channel of "Bang and Blame" by 26dB (pictured right):


As for my belief that the LFE is also 20dB too quiet... well, I can't be so certain on that value, but it would match the issues faced with the center.

What difference do these changes make to the mix?​

Well, from a preliminary look, it seems like these changes make the vocals a bit more prominent in the mix, which might alleviate the issue Dob was having earlier:

I should have been more specific...I was complaining about the multichannel mix. The vocals are almost completely buried under the guitar. It helps if you turn down the center channel, but it doesn't help much, and then the center is out of balance for the rest of the album.

The vocals are much clearer in the stereo mix.

As for other differences, I've only given it a preliminary look, so I can't say for certain if anything else much is make that different.

Is this the case with the DVD-A release as well?​

Can anyone confirm if this is the case on the DVD-A release as well? I don't own that release specifically.