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Reality Technologies Surround Master - General Technical Questions

oxforddickie

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I've decided to start this thread in response to the original thread being split into two, but leaving a hole.

This thread is for technical questions regarding the units QS and SQ decoding abilities only
 
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chucky3042

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Thanks Richard

Great idea

Regards

Chucky

I've decided to start this thread in response to the original thread being split into two, but leaving a hole.

This thread is for technical questions regarding the units QS and SQ decoding abilities only
 

chucky3042

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Hi All

Whilst I fully recognize a vectorscope is not a true quantitative test, it can be very useful in visually defining what is heard between comparative systems. I recently had the pleasure of visiting "Rustyandi" at his home where we compared many systems using Ron's Vectorscope. Below are links to Youtube channels where we directly compare The INVOLVE Surround Master against stereo, Dolby PL2, SRS circle surround, ambisonics and Tate-SQ.

Of the three music pieces I find the Tracy Chapman track the most interesting as it is mostly front center with a small amount of studio ambiance in the background. Of all the systems I believe INVOLVE did by far the best job - keeping the stereo feel but just slight ambiance in the rear. Whilst Tate-SQ in general performed well you could hear a lot of frontal information being forced to the rear and sides. When you look at the Vectorscope you can see this.

We will be publishing a few more of these in the next few days comparing things like decoding Dolby PL2 and the comparison with discrete.

Enjoy

Saturday Night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-VJaKRSmzo

Tracey Chapman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991HJPvC-VE

Ridiculous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F15sA0qHgOI
 

oxforddickie

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Your missing my point completely, and continue to talk about it's abilities to create fake surround.

My only point of interest in this unit is it's ability to correctly decode QS. Add to that the idea an engine designed to decode QS is to be used to decode SQ. The two systems are as incompatible as petrol & deisel, so i'm interested in how accurate it can do the job.

I work on a purely technical level, which is what is needed to accurately decode these matrix's.

By the way, i'm interested how my files are doing, i have new decodeing processes for both QS and SQ that are still out with people on test, and so far it's the best yet!
 

chucky3042

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Hi Richard

Perhaps I have put this in the wrong thread as my interests are much broader than QS but are more related to our INVOLVES performance with its own INVOLVE encode format, PL2, stereo etc. Our interest is really the general consumer market - not just the QS (very specialist market).

I will move this to another thread.

With a bit of luck we might get to your files this week, its been a very busy start of the year.

Regards

Charlie

Your missing my point completely, and continue to talk about it's abilities to create fake surround.

My only point of interest in this unit is it's ability to correctly decode QS. Add to that the idea an engine designed to decode QS is to be used to decode SQ. The two systems are as incompatible as petrol & deisel, so i'm interested in how accurate it can do the job.

I work on a purely technical level, which is what is needed to accurately decode these matrix's.

By the way, i'm interested how my files are doing, i have new decodeing processes for both QS and SQ that are still out with people on test, and so far it's the best yet!
 

oxforddickie

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I hope you don't mind me bringing these subjects up, but what has tobe remembered is that although the unit may be more consumer based, people here will have the possibility of QS/SQ decoding higher on their wants list
 

quadsearcher

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I like the idea of vectorscope comparisons, but since "This thread is for technical questions regarding the units QS and SQ decoding abilities only " , I'd like to see comparisons of QS-to-QS. For example, a QS test-tone record played through a QSD-1 compared to the same recording through the Surround Master. While hearing it would be better, at least one could see that the amplitude of each channel changes essentially the same with both decoders (both decoders place LR in LR, etc.). I know it is a crude comparison but it seems to get closer to something more technical than "sounds better".
 

oxforddickie

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Do you have a QSD-1 and if so, would you be able to record the output of it for comparison. I've already sent some tones to them for me to check some things regardsing the decode properties of their unit
 

LizardKing

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I'd like to see waveforms of a good QS encoded source (e.g. the test tones as mentioned above) for the following:

Surround Master
QSD-1
QS-Final scripts

Now that would be interesting... :eek:
 

oxforddickie

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I've created new QS (and SQ) test tones from my software encoders. The QS ones have been sent for putting through the Reality unit, so i can compare the results with the newly devoloped QS*Final/II process (which has not been used for any release)

Alli need is someone with a QSD-1 who can record the output using my tones
 

chucky3042

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Hi All

Give me a few days, we will try and get some QS - QSD1 comparisons with the assistance of "Rustyandi" who has every surround system known!

Regards

Chucky
 

oxforddickie

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Please do not use a vector scope, lets have some proper information
 

quadsearcher

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What's better than a vectorscope? I'm not kidding, I don't know. Maybe a software version of a 4-channel storage scope? Throw me a bone here OD, I'm interested in this stuff! Apologies if I'm taking your thread off topic, just let me know if that's the case and I'll chill. And I don't have a QSD-1, that's the biggest reason I'm interested in the SM, although when I have enough dough I want one just to play 2ch or a certain EV or DY record.
 

chucky3042

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Dear All

The vectorscope has it's uses a a quick view of where the sound is going, it can be quite informing. Having said that OD is correct that is very non specific. I will shortly also do some CRO photo's of the QS encode for sine wave tone, showing phase and magnitude relationships. No point of doing the same for INVOLVE encode as the matrix dynamically changes with music content.

Regards

Chucky
 

oxforddickie

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Chucky, why not use the tones i sent? These are accurate QS encoded and will show what is needed, although i would still appreciate the decode qs decoded versions of both files for further examination
 

chucky3042

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Hi Richard

I fully intend to use your file but as previously noted we are a bit flat out on a few other projects at the moment. Dave usually handles the audio file stuff and he basically has a permanent "do not disturb" sign up at the moment.

As a interim we are doing other tests setups that make the other process's quicker this week. I know this sounds convoluted but we really are flat out but be assured it will happen.

Regards

chucky
 

oxforddickie

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Here's an idea i'd like to put forward because basically these pictures, etc don't actually prove anything. As the old saying goes: "the proofs in the eating".

So, here's my idea. Choose a good QS encoded track, and as well as the picturial evidence, make the decoded files available in, say, MLP encoded format and include the newly developed SQ*Finall/II version in the mix as well.

That way, people will be able to compare the results themselves, and will be able to checkout important things like image creation, stability, true front & rear l/r separation, etc

This is obviously separate apart from the files sent to you for decoding and further examination.
 

chucky3042

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Hi Richard

Time permitting, we are happy to try your suggestion. As an alternative may I offer you the opportunity of actually purchasing our unit (at the qq members discount price) and try the thing out yourself. When you are finished testing the unit and do not want to retain it just return it in good order (I think the terms were a month or so - I can check this for you).

You like all members of this forum are free to post the good and the bad. If problems are found it is good feedback and we will attempt to rectify the situation.

regards

Chucky
 

oxforddickie

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Hi

Thanks for the offer but i'm one of those who never listen to 'artificial' surround, prefering to listen to music how it was created, so if it's stereo, it's played in stereo.

The unit wouldn't get used much, there are onlt a few worthwhile QS albums (in my opinion) worth listening too and they have now been decoded over the last couple of weeks in the new QS*Final/II process.

As explained in the other posting my main reason for doing this is to ensure that Quadraphiles here get the full facts as to the units capabilities, and that means accurate detailsof it's QS decoding abilities along with samples so they can decide themselves, rather than just taking the word of 'non-technical' individuals.

regards
 
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