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Reality Technologies Surround Master - Owners Thread

JonUrban

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It was suggested that the massive original Reality Technologies thread be split into this thread, and another for owners of the unit. So, here you go.

Keep all discussion about the unit's operation and use in this thread, so that owners of the unit have a place to talk among themselves.

The original thread will be closed, but can be accessed here:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?15976


Thanks!
 

rustyandi

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OK

I will start as the one who has used it for the longest time
1st it is as good as the QSD 1 as a QS Decoder

And have been using it almost daily
until I had this unit I was using the QSD 1 for about 35 years.

I have a system that allows me to plug it easily and switch
from 1 thing to another so I can compare decoders

I have only used it as a 4 channel decoder for Stereo
and it works from pleasing to Spectacular depending on tracks

I am a surround fan so I am a Tragic and have not heard stereo on
my system for years

For someone who want's the Best QS decoder
at a price that is not out bid (E/Bay) and a new listening experience from you Stereo
this is it

I write this as a person that enjoys music and if I can get any more
fun from a piece of music then I am happy

But remember all effects are random

Happy New Year

Ron
 
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rustyandi

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I have used the
Vector 4 test LP
And switched back and forward with the QSD1
all the tests were the same on the Scope or a tiny bit better
the side test was the same rear channels were sharp center rear was there
and the image moved from right rear to left rear
In all respects it the same as the QSD 1
one thing I would like to point out that if you want to hear good Quad or
any Surround it is best if you have the same speakers
the bigger the better here are a number of Quad and 5.1 tracks
that have bass in the rear and drums
I have played Steely Dan QS lps and I have read that some people
have thought that they were not Quad but if you hear them through the S/Master
you will be surprised how good they are
I also have the QSD 1000 it has a sharper image than it,and a QSD 2
a friend of mine thought that the S/Master had a smother sound
I could not hear that but I am not as young as I used to be
As a QS decoder it is as good as the best
I hope to have a site up with the scope showing the
effects comparing QSD1 and S/Master decoding
If charlie (chucky) will do it I am not able to
I,m tired now want to go to bed
 

chucky3042

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Hi All

Whilst I fully recognize a vectorscope is not a true quantitative test, it can be very useful in visually defining what is heard between comparative systems. I recently had the pleasure of visiting "Rustyandi" at his home where we compared many systems using Ron's Vectorscope. Below are links to Youtube channels where we directly compare The INVOLVE Surround Master against stereo, Dolby PL2, SRS circle surround, ambisonics and Tate-SQ.

Of the three music pieces I find the Tracy Chapman track the most interesting as it is mostly front center with a small amount of studio ambiance in the background. Of all the systems I believe INVOLVE did by far the best job - keeping the stereo feel but just slight ambiance in the rear. Whilst Tate-SQ in general performed well you could hear a lot of frontal information being forced to the rear and sides. When you look at the Vectorscope you can see this.

We will be publishing a few more of these in the next few days comparing things like decoding Dolby PL2 and the comparison with discrete.

Enjoy

Saturday Night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-VJaKRSmzo

Tracey Chapman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991HJPvC-VE

Ridiculous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F15sA0qHgOI
 

chucky3042

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Hi All

We have been doing quiet a few vectorscope comparisons with Rustyandi's assistance recently and I will ensure they are all presented to this site as they become available.
Here is a few to get started with. Yes we will try to accommodate any requests you may have.

Involve - decode of Electro Voice EV4 (the background voices are "Rustyandi" and mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Uzp2U6lBs&feature=youtu.be


Involve - decode of Dolby Pro Logic II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7Ag-2ZE5A&feature=youtu.be


Discrete 4.1 vs discrete 4.1 encoded to INVOLVE format - decoded via the INVOLVE Surround Master (password - involve)
https://vimeo.com/58068520

Please note on the discrete - INVOLVE format encode version we get even better surround results if we recorded in QS format but frankly the stereo image is then compressed. With INVOLVE format you cannot HEAR the difference. In addition the Surround master does pull some additional ambient information left over on the discrete version. We will publish the WS result on Oxforddickie's thread next week.

Enjoy

Chucky
 

rustyandi

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before anyone says anything
The only LP that is EV4 is the middle one
the others are DY
we did a test on them to
that will be shown later
ron
 

chucky3042

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Hi Richard

Happy to try any test and welcome your comments. Please note that things have been a bit slow in the last few days here as we have the Australia day holiday, and I have just got out of hospital with a suspected heart attack! Turned out after 2 days of very invasive testing that my ticker is great and pain was an old shoulder injury acting up late at night.

Things will eventually get done.

As a general not I / we do not claim perfect decode of any format as errors will always exist but we believe we have in general excellent cross compatibility between various systems and in particular stereo. When either QS or INVOLVE is the source our panel studies have shown most people prefer the encode / decode to discrete (we published this study earlier on in the initial thread). I note that our advertising people are more bold than my statement but I really do not have much control or say in that area.

Regards

Chucky
 

inkubuzz

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Hi, well, yesterday I hooked up the Involve Surround Master to my receiver and... Im hooked up now...

WOW!

Ive got some amazing results. Ive been playing around with differents songs in mp3 and I have to say...great stuff.

Everything has worked great, but there are some songs really amazing

Hoobastank - The Reason
Muse - Assasin
Devin Townsend - Coast
Muse - Knights of Cydonia
Oceansize - Commemorative 9/11 T-Shirt
Blackfield - Epidemic
Blackfield - This Killer (although SW said that he couldnt multichannel mix for Blackfield its done so anyway and its there with the surround master)


I have to mention PAntera - This Love, althou ther is nothing swirling around, its seems Phil Anselmo, the singer, is screaming in your face!!! and without spitting! its great!!

there are a lot other songs I listened to, and its really good, but I was paying more attention to the music, than taking notes of which songs i liked the most

thanks chucky and friends!
 

chucky3042

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Hi Inkubuzz

thank you for you comments. I note you experience the same thing I do - I actually forget to listen critically as I get distracted by the actual sound. I find that by effectively pulling the stereo track apart without sonic artifacts you actual get to focus on individual details.

Regards

Chucky
 

chucky3042

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Hi Richard

I really think we are in agreement on many things and are after similar goals in terms of linearity etc. Having said that we all must face the fact that 99.9% of recorded material is STEREO and any successful surround system must be capable of convincing and pleasant "decoding" of this basic format. I suppose the real test is what the user actually prefers to listen to - the Surround Master decode or the original stereo. At this end the vast majority of trial users have preferred just leaving the system set to INVOLVE decode and feel a loss when STEREO is selected.

Yes it is somewhat random but frankly I cannot remember an incidence where we get the audience up front and the performer in the rear!

We claim that we have made considerable improvements to the phase detectors and the manner that information is used with respect to human hearing perception. The real challenge is to fool the listener to not hearing any control actions by the decoder.

In regard to our mutual concern about encode/ decode linearity of the Surround Master may I refer you to page 10 and 11 of the INVOLVE Technical Specifications pdf (previously published) linked below. In this (static signal) test we plot the Input/ Output linearity of Involve left to right, front to rear and across diagonals. These tests were conducted a year or so ago and we have made significant improvement in this area but have not had time to fully document yet. Please note the scales are linear and not logarithmic and so are in fact a more conservative representation.

Regards

Chucky
 

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chucky3042

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Hi Again

Actually I respectfully differ, the "pictures" / graphs were derived from real test data/ numbers obtained via well conducted AC Voltage in/ out measurement on the test equipment listed in the front of the document. All tests were conducted by an actual qualified electrical / electronic engineer (as am I- 33 years experience). No numbers have been "pulled out of my arse" or neatly sketched by some publicity type.

If you want I will ask David to dig up the original test numbers.

As stated we will do the decode of your files as suggested (David is one busy pumpkin) and submit it to all those who are interested. We have not checked your encode but given your experience I am sure they are fully QS compliant.


Regards

Chucky
 

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Hi Chucky,

I installed a line level attenuator in the center channel and the 5.1 mode performs as well as the 4.0/4.1 mode which I have always raved about. I am sure you and David will address this issue by either a equal output from all 6 channels or a supplied in line attenuator to balance the center. Take care and thank you for providing a GREAT product.

Regards,
Reagan
 

chucky3042

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Hi Reagan

I am really happy that you were able to resolve the center channel level issue with the attenuator. One question, roughly how many db did you attenuate the center by for your system?

Regards

Chucky
 

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Hi Reagan

I am really happy that you were able to resolve the center channel level issue with the attenuator. One question, roughly how many db did you attenuate the center by for your system?

Regards

Chucky
Hi Chucky,

I apologize for failing to mention details about the attenuator. I used a Harrison Labs 3dB RCA inline attenuator. They are not cheap but it does not cut bandwidth or add noise to the signal. I purchased your SM to install in a recording system I have to make dts CD discs for myself and friends. My recording system is not state of the art but sounds pretty darn good to us. Without the attenuator installed for the center channel in 5.1 mode the results were a center channel soundbar. As I stated earlier the 4.0/4.1 mode worked perfect out of the box. The only way I can control level before recording is with the main volume control of my OPPO BDP-83 so even output from the SM on all 6 channels is a must. It will also solve the problem of having to change center speaker levels on a receiver install every time you want to use it. I must also say that DPLIIx is not even close to the performance of your unit when it is calibrated properly. I sincerely hope my information is of help to you and others.

Regards,
Reagan

NOTE: The Harrison Labs attenuators come in a pack of (2) and I am shipping the other one to a QQ Member that purchased your unit. I did the work and we both hear the glory :>)
 

chucky3042

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Hi Reagan

Any idea of the amount of dB you needed to attenuate?

Regards

chucky
 

chucky3042

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Hi Again Reagan

Oops, I missed the bit about the 3db attenuator. Thanks for the feedback.

I remember back in the 70's the generally accepted mythology was the smallest change in level that was perceivable was 3dB, personally I can clearly hear major changes at 1 dB. In surround sound 3 dB is really noticeable!

Regards

Chucky
 

byrdman7

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Hi Again Reagan

Oops, I missed the bit about the 3db attenuator. Thanks for the feedback.

I remember back in the 70's the generally accepted mythology was the smallest change in level that was perceivable was 3dB, personally I can clearly hear major changes at 1 dB. In surround sound 3 dB is really noticeable!

Regards

Chucky
I had to make several test discs by lowering the OPPO's output until I had no clipping in the center channel. It calculated to 3dB. I can hear 1dB level change too and in digital recording +1 dB can cause clipping so you can imagine what +3 dB was doing. The unit works like a charm now in 4.0, 4.1 and 5.1, I am VERY happy with its performance. Thanks again for a GREAT product.

Regards,
Reagan
 

Q8

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Yes it is somewhat random but frankly I cannot remember an incidence where we get the audience up front and the performer in the rear!
"We were gonna set the equipment up backwards and turn our bee-hinds to the audience so that way EVERYBODY would be backstage!" - David Lee Roth

But seriously. I'm interested in the results of OD's requested tests as well.

He may not have the best temperament in the world but he knows what he is doing and he is after the truth. The wold needs more of that.
 

chucky3042

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Hi All

Dunno where I should post this one but as there are other comparisons on this thread I thought I would keep them together.

Here is a vector scope look at how the INVOLVE Surround Master decodes Dolbly PL2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et3PQBNckYg

Enjoy

Chucky
 
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