Receivers that decode 4.0 PCM/MLP recordings over HDMI

[Sal1950]

I'm using a blu ray player to play discs, I have no interest in ripping my media. I got half way through ripping my CDs and gave up as too much like hard work for little benefit.

Like I said, Just a thought.
I found the added convenience of a harddrive based music server more that worth the effort in the ripping time. Once you get past the initial work-load of getting your current library done, then it's simply a matter of a couple minutes each time you acquire a new disc.
I currently have over 3500 albums, bit perfectly playable, from LP rips, CD, DVD-A, BD-A stored with click of a mouse accessibility. The amount of storage space for all those disc boxes in saved in my home is tremendous.
Or maybe consider doing so only going forward, how many more discs do you see acquiring in the next 2 decades?
YMMV
Cheers, Sal

 

[Mark Anderson]

The issue with my Marantz not playing 4.0 via HDMI led me to rip all of my discs and playback through JRiver. So easy now as I know the routine.
Might play an Atmos title from time to time on the Oppo but most of the time it is off the hard drive.

 

[Owen Smith]

I have had an AV40 with the HDMI 2.0 card and now the HDMI 2.1 card. My findings are as follows:

Does the AV40 support gapless playback of FLACs from USB sticks or hard discs connected to the rear panel USB? For either stereo, 4.0 or 5.1?

I must have read or watched a couple of dozen reviews of these AVRs, and all any of them ever discuss is playing Blu Rays and how great Dirac and Atmos are. The product has so many other features but almost none of them ever get a mention in reviews.

 

[rjpinca]

Here is an AVR to add to the list that decodes 4.0 PCM over HDMI.

Brand: Yamaha
Model No. Aventage RX-A6A
Year: 2021
{tested with Intel NUC8i3BEK running Kodi/LibreELEC}

 

[Krobar]

We probably should try to be more specific about support for the 3 main mappings of 4 channel, eg:

Arcam AV40:
FL + FR + SL + SR (4.0): Yes
3.1: Yes
FL + FR + SBL + SBR ("Quad"): Yes (Maps to 4.0)

Source support plays a big role here too, for example AMD graphics cards in windows only support the FL + FR + SBL + SBR ("Quad") mapping (Which oddly enough is still the default 4 channel mapping for Windows).

 

[mandrix]

My TX-RZ50 does just fine with Quad mlp. Windows and/or channel mapping is usually the culprit for which pair of rear speakers play even with 5.1.
I use a pc for playback, so, Windows....
I was surprised the other day, was playing either Deadwing or Fear Of A Blank Planet in Foobar and was getting the surrounds (sides) playing instead of SB speakers. I didn't investigate any further.
My surrounds are better speakers than my SB's so I would prefer them for 4.0/5.1.

 

[mandrix]

We probably should try to be more specific about support for the 3 main mappings of 4 channel, eg:

Arcam AV40:
FL + FR + SL + SR (4.0): Yes
3.1: Yes
FL + FR + SBL + SBR ("Quad"): Yes (Maps to 4.0)

Source support plays a big role here too, for example AMD graphics cards in windows only support the FL + FR + SBL + SBR ("Quad") mapping (Which oddly enough is still the default 4 channel mapping for Windows).

AMD cards..hmm. I use either of the motherboard HDMI or my Nvidia card's HDMI out > AVR and it seems to be the same as when I had an AMD card.
Not sure it would make a difference, but I should probably pay attention to whether the AVR is in Direct Mode or Multichannel. I believe the only difference is that in Direct Mode the AVR does not use the EQ settings, and the Multichannel does, on my AVR at least.

 

[Krobar]

AMD cards..hmm. I use either of the motherboard HDMI or my Nvidia card's HDMI out > AVR and it seems to be the same as when I had an AMD card.
Not sure it would make a difference, but I should probably pay attention to whether the AVR is in Direct Mode or Multichannel. I believe the only difference is that in Direct Mode the AVR does not use the EQ settings, and the Multichannel does, on my AVR at least.

For 4 channel it is a bit of a historical mess. Windows Directsound officially only supports FL+FR+SBL+SBR. WASAPI can support most mappings but the only listed 4 channel mappings are FL+FR+SBL+SBR (Default) and 3.1.

For 6 channel / 5.1 it much much simpler. Microsoft changed FL+FR+ C + LFE +SL+SR to the default quite a few years ago and very little media is anything but plain 5.1.

HDMI is primarily governed by the CEA spec. That can support nearly any mapping but the only listed 4 channel mappings are FL+FR+SL+SR and 3.1 which is why FL+FR+SBL+SBR receiver support is rarer.

There are multiple things that skew this too. For example some Windows drivers output Quad as Quad and some output it as 4.0. Some application may only output one channel map too no matter how the file is marked. From a Windows perspective any files which have no channel mapping are quad but what the application or driver does can be different. Most receivers treat unmapped 4 channel PCM as 4.0.

Another thing I have noticed is at least with AMD or Intel in WASAPI/Windows is odd channel number PCM is unsupported. Kodi is smart enough to deal with this to some extent (eg. 3.0 will output as 3.1). The same hardware in Linux can do odd channel count PCM fine (eg. 3.0 source is output as 3.0) so it seems to be a Windows limitation or at least a common limitation in Windows drivers. This is mostly a non-issue unless you have 2.1, 4.1 or 6.1 sources.

You can even get different behaviour depending on the upmixer. With my Arcam when using any Auro sound modes the channel mapping is ignored and the input is treated as 4.0; this is because Auro / Auro Native has only one valid mapping for each channel count (Up to 7.1).

 

[mandrix]

What I intensely dislike is sometimes Windows sees my monitor as the audio device. Then the default sound becomes stereo.
Since for reasons of my own, I use both HDMI out from the gpu > AVR > monitor (and TV) and DP > to the monitor, the monitor sometimes has a mind of it's own and switches to the DP input, and so the sound becomes stereo.
My setup is actually a little more complicated, since I have 2 pc's running through an HDMI switch to the AVR.
When there is any lag in the handshake with the AVR, such as switching inputs on the HDMI switch, the monitor sometimes just switches over to the active, or DP, input.
But one deals with it whatever comes up.

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

Don't have an SACD player to test with, but my Onkyo TX-SR607 plays 4.0 and 4.1 PCM and MLP fine from discs in my PS5, ripped files, and Chromecast, over HDMI.

 

[mandrix]

Don't have an SACD player to test with, but my Onkyo TX-SR607 plays 4.0 and 4.1 PCM and MLP fine from discs in my PS5, ripped files, and Chromecast, over HDMI.

My Onkyo TX-NR609 did as well. My TX-NR656 does not. The TX-RZ50 does.

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

What I intensely dislike is sometimes Windows sees my monitor as the audio device. Then the default sound becomes stereo.

In the Sound settings on Windows 10 and 11, there should be a "Manage sound devices" option, right below "Troubleshoot". That will list all your devices, you can click on them to get an option to disable them. I'd definitely do that for the monitor audio. If you only ever use HDMI out, you can disable everything but that as an output device.

 

[mandrix]

My Onkyo TX-NR609 did as well. My TX-NR656 does not. The TX-RZ50 does.

When I first got the 656 I had authored a DVDA disc with quad music. When only the front l & r speakers played I thought something had screwed up with the MLP encoder. Was freaking out for a while....after adding silent C channel playback was fine....

 

[mandrix]

In the Sound settings on Windows 10 and 11, there should be a "Manage sound devices" option, right below "Troubleshoot". That will list all your devices, you can click on them to get an option to disable them. I'd definitely do that for the monitor audio. If you only ever use HDMI out, you can disable everything but that as an output device.

View attachment 103645

Usually now I just try to make sure the AVR is on before I turn on the monitor. It's become sort of a habit now, and that always eliminates the monitor as a sound device. Both the monitor and the tv in the audio room are piped from the AVR HDMI ouputs. Both will work with the AVR off as I have it set up that way.

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

When I first got the 656 I had authored a DVDA disc with quad music. When only the front l & r speakers played I thought something had screwed up with the MLP encoder. Was freaking out for a while....after adding silent C channel playback was fine....

Yeah, I gave my parents a Pioneer like that for a minute. I was spoiled having my Onkyo as my first surround receiver with HDMI (I'd previously had a Sony with 8-channel discrete inputs, run off a gaming PC's sound card).

Then the HDMI inputs started dying anyway and I got them the same Onkyo I have. The Pioneer lives in the garage now.

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

Usually now I just try to make sure the AVR is on before I turn on the monitor. It's become sort of a habit now, and that always eliminates the monitor as a sound device. Both the monitor and the tv in the audio room are piped from the AVR HDMI ouputs. Both will work with the AVR off as I have it set up that way.

Well give it a try, Both the monitor and the receiver should show up by model number in Windows as output devices. HDMI hardware handshake is a thing of beauty when it works.

 

[mandrix]

Well give it a try, Both the monitor and the receiver should show up by model number in Windows as output devices. HDMI hardware handshake is a thing of beauty when it works.

Thanks. Anything to do with sound in Windows I'm pretty well versed in. I just have my little gripes and ways of doing things.
My pc IS my playback device, although I have disc players galore, lol.