The Collection: An Adventure In Sound - Audio Fidelity 4.0 Multichannel SACD (May 2016)

[cupboy]

C~boy, I just think AF is starting to retreat from QUAD releases and felt it wasn't worth the extra licensing/mastering fee to include the 4.0, especially since it included only 4 tracks that weren't on the first two BS&T QUAD releases. Remember the complaints lodged against The Collection........wasn't it 6 tracks that were previously released on other AF QUAD SACDs?

The Collection most surely helped with the sales of Herbie Hancock Head Hunters for Analogue Productions. It's been sold out on Music Direct for weeks now.

 

[fredblue]

The Collection most surely helped with the sales of Herbie Hancock Head Hunters for Analogue Productions. It's been sold out on Music Direct for weeks now.

Well I'm guessing by the time they'd compiled the Collection and done the tape pulling/mastering etc it was too late to turn back?
AF could have gone with something off Thrust on the Collection, if they wanted to help shift their Thrust SACD.. but they were kinda limited with alternatives for Herbie Quads, no? (Sextant = sensational Quad mix but bordering on impenetrable at the best of times, in a compilation context forget it imho.. and Secrets, well, is it even a real Quad?)

 

[Q-Eight]

Peter Gunn:

To me watching on the Scope and listening
It looked like a CD4 Record and one side had a carrier drop out
it went from a mono to Left front to left rear
so on the scope it gave a side ways Y look
I am not saying that it is a CD4 record but it just looked that way
Did any else find this?

All the other tracks gave a good Quad look

Henry Mancini's Peter Gunn Theme on this compilation has a channel error. I checked this on my 'scope today and compared to the Q8. On this disc, the front channels (lead trumpet, drums & bass) which should be in the front are in both RIGHT channels and the stereo brass section which should be in the back are in the LEFT channels. It's a 1/4 turn out.

 

[4-earredwonder]

haha, wow. This is one of the single discs I have avoided....because of all the bad comments. I don't agree. I love it. I voted a 9. Amazing....

Yeah, Gene.....there are certainly pros and cons regarding this controversial QUAD potpourri but all in all, I would rate it a success. I just wish they hadn't duplicated cuts they released on their other QUAD reissues and yes, some tracks sonically fare better than others, but at least AF tried!

Let's face it: we QUADDIES are a tough bunch and to 'try' to satisfy every taste is a lost cause.

I'm hoping we see a few more QUAD reissues from AF before year's end.....all their upcoming SACDs are STEREO, only*.

[* I have Spirit's first album and the Blue Cheer Stereo SACDs on pre~order].

 

[vinylguy4]

I got this at the LA audio show from the Elusive Disc booth. I was there, it was there, so I just was destined to get it.
Really only a few cuts already released on surround SACD, and did not have any fast forward duds on my first listen.
Liked the Miles cut, fit in nicely.
I give it another listen before I vote, but should be a fairly high vote.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Listened to this a few nights ago for the first time... great collection of songs, really good quad mixes, and mostly great fidelity. I wasn't thrilled when this was released, being a collection of singles (I really wanted the entire B.O.C, Santana and Harry Nilsson albums), but since I've started listening to surround tracks rather then entire albums, I've realized this kind of album is fantastic! Quite often on the old quad albums there might only be one or two songs that I want to hear, and this is a great way to get those songs! And the ones they've chosen for "The Collection" are generally winners (yes, I could have done without the few songs that have already been released on SACD, but whatever). Among the songs never released previously in hi-res, the only song that was a little lacking in fidelity was "Grazing In The Grass" (not one of my favorite songs, either, but still a good mix). I really wish we could get a few more "collections" like this one! 3 for the mixes, 2.5 for the content, and 2.5 for the fidelity. 8.

I agree: compilation discs, even though they tend to be hit or miss, are a breath of fresh air for those craving diversity.

I was disappointed with the Santana track as it really wasn't that much better than the 'dreaded' [but, IMO, VERY serviceable] DTS 5.1 of Abraxas. I'm sure if SONY Japan tackles the QUAD Abraxas reissue, it'll shimmer!

However, assembling these compilations, especially in QUAD, must've been a nightmare for AF as I'm sure each cut not only had to be ferreted out but entailed individual licensing agreements. And the fact that it's still in print doesn't bode well for popularity in number of sales. Only 22 QQ posters voted in the Collection poll which is a dismal number considering AF's efforts. Rather depressing to say the least.

Regrettably, doubtful we'll be seeing any more compilation QUAD SACDs from AF. It would've been nice having similar QUAD/5.1 compilations from the vaults of Warner Brothers and UMG.

 

[edisonbaggins]

And the fact that it's still in print doesn't bode well for popularity in number of sales. Only 22 QQ posters voted in the Collection poll which is a dismal number considering AF's efforts. Rather depressing to say the least.

I thought at the time that it came out that it might prove to be a commercial failure (not sure whether that's true, but it seems that way).
And then they released the double Bob Dylan Live set. Just too expensive for what you actually get (IMO). I've seen unpurchased copies at every record store I've visited since...
I think these two releases could have had an impact on the viability of AF's surround campaign. Just speculation though.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I thought at the time that it came out that it might prove to be a commercial failure (not sure whether that's true, but it seems that way).
And then they released the double Bob Dylan Live set. Just too expensive for what you actually get (IMO). I've seen unpurchased copies at every record store I've visited since...
I think these two releases could have had an impact on the viability of AF's surround campaign. Just speculation though.

You're probably right, EB. The Dylan bootleg 5.0 disc is ambience ONLY in the rears and the $60 list was an ouch factor for a lot of perspective buyers. And The Collection, which I personally was excited about did fizzle out somewhat with the repetition of 5 tracks available on other AF SACDs. I did purchase both to support AF's efforts but as I would not reasonably consider both releases missteps on AF's part, ultimately, their limited appeal failed to satisfy a 'finicky' market.

And let's be real: no matter what AF released in QUAD, there would always be those dissenters who'd gripe anyway.

And much red ink has been spilled over the fact that AF's CEO, Marshall Blonstein, wanted to license some VERY choice titles for QUAD/5.1 release but was stymied by unavailability of the masters or refusal of individual artists to sign off on them [and some masters were also in unusable condition].

 

[weekendtoy]

And now it's $22.39. (I just ordered from the cracked case specialists, and e-mailed MusicDirect to cancel the order I had put in with them)

Thanks! Just ordered from importCDs at under $25 shipped.

 

[sjcorne]

Henry Mancini's Peter Gunn Theme on this compilation has a channel error. I checked this on my 'scope today and compared to the Q8. On this disc, the front channels (lead trumpet, drums & bass) which should be in the front are in both RIGHT channels and the stereo brass section which should be in the back are in the LEFT channels. It's a 1/4 turn out.

Nice catch...followed your instructions and swapped AV cables for DTS transfer. might have mixed them up though...which channel should the sax solo come out of?

 

[ssully]

The 'Grazing in the Grass' mix is so right-weighted, I wonder if it would benefit from 'rotating' the channels ? (It also comes blasting out the speakers louder than the track before it...which I kinda dig)


Another note: the mix of "For the Love of Money" here has the same rear channel configuration as the old SACD...which some consider to be incorrect:

http://sacdtodvdaresurrected.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/the-ojays-ship-ahoy-sacd-rear-channel.html

(FWIW in the 'uncorrected' version, Anthony Jackson's opening bass pans L-R-SL-SR; in the 'corrected' version it moves L-R-SR-SL, i.e., a circle)

 

[Fourplay]

The 'Grazing in the Grass' mix is so right-weighted, I wonder if it would benefit from 'rotating' the channels ? (It also comes blasting out the speakers louder than the track before it...which I kinda dig)


Another note: the mix of "For the Love of Money" here has the same rear channel configuration as the old SACD...which some consider to be incorrect:

http://sacdtodvdaresurrected.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/the-ojays-ship-ahoy-sacd-rear-channel.html

(FWIW in the 'uncorrected' version, Anthony Jackson's opening bass pans L-R-SL-SR; in the 'corrected' version it moves L-R-SR-SL, i.e., a circle)

FYI and for those who have not been around for long, there is a thread to document suggested channel corrections:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...eassignment-recommendations.19693/post-225843

Feel free to create formal recommendations that can be accessed in a single location.

 

[salsdali]

.........my current B&W 802 Nautilus rears which are Full range nicely fit the bill.....but hardly 100% as my fronts are gigantic....and at times do overwhelm the rears.

jesus, what do you have for fronts?

so jealous already lol

 

[fredblue]

The 'Grazing in the Grass' mix is so right-weighted, I wonder if it would benefit from 'rotating' the channels ? (It also comes blasting out the speakers louder than the track before it...which I kinda dig)


Another note: the mix of "For the Love of Money" here has the same rear channel configuration as the old SACD...which some consider to be incorrect:

http://sacdtodvdaresurrected.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/the-ojays-ship-ahoy-sacd-rear-channel.html

(FWIW in the 'uncorrected' version, Anthony Jackson's opening bass pans L-R-SL-SR; in the 'corrected' version it moves L-R-SR-SL, i.e., a circle)

the Friends Of Distinction track seemed to me to be improved with one clockwise shift of the channels so FL becomes FR, FR > SR, SR > SL, SL > FL.

Ship Ahoy diagonal pan is intentional.

QQ member steelydave has info about PIR and their use of diagonal pans in their Quad mixes.

this is borne out in the Quads of Billy Paul's War Of The Gods, MFSB's Love Is The Message and Harold Melvin's Black & Blue, which all, like Ship Ahoy, also have tracks where there are diagonal pans in a mix where there's also round the room 360 pans that execute as they should.

 

[bmoura]

The mix of "For the Love of Money" here has the same rear channel configuration as the old SACD...which some consider to be incorrect.

Remember that the channel assignments for these tracks, from the approved Surround Sound mixes, are marked on the outside of the box of each tape from the record company vaults in almost every case.

When the reissues are made, the original mix and channel assignments must be followed, unless the reissue label wants to attempt to convince the recording artist, producer and record label that their approach is better.
A very unlikely scenario.

 

[ssully]

Remember that the channel assignments for these tracks, from the approved Surround Sound mixes, are marked on the outside of the box of each tape from the record company vaults in almost every case.

Yet people who write things do make mistakes now and then.

When the reissues are made, the original mix and channel assignments must be followed, unless the reissue label wants to attempt to convince the recording artist, producer and record label that their approach is better.
A very unlikely scenario.

Ideally a questionable assignment directive would be checked with the original participants.

 

[ssully]

the Friends Of Distinction track seemed to me to be improved with one clockwise shift of the channels so FL becomes FR, FR > SR, SR > SL, SL > FL.

Based on what I heard, that woulds seem to put much of the lead vocal in the SR. I haven't done any fiddling, but I would try rotating everything one or two channels *counter* clockwise.

Ship Ahoy diagonal pan is intentional.

QQ member steelydave has info about PIR and their use of diagonal pans in their Quad mixes.

this is borne out in the Quads of Billy Paul's War Of The Gods, MFSB's Love Is The Message and Harold Melvin's Black & Blue, which all, like Ship Ahoy, also have tracks where there are diagonal pans in a mix where there's also round the room 360 pans that execute as they should.

Yet the 'uncorrected' assignment seems to make no sense for track two (title track), where it does strange things to the 'ship' sounds that open the track.

Is there a 360 pan anywhere on the 'uncorrected' Ship Ahoy?

Also, does the SACD mix match the original LP and Q8?

 

[ssully]

Here's what "grazing in the grass' looks like.

 

[fredblue]

Based on what I heard, that woulds seem to put much of the lead vocal in the SR. I haven't done any fiddling, but I would try rotating everything one or two channels *counter* clockwise.




Yet the 'uncorrected' assignment seems to make no sense for track two (title track), where it does strange things to the 'ship' sounds that open the track.

Is there a 360 pan anywhere on the 'uncorrected' Ship Ahoy?

Also, does the SACD mix match the original LP and Q8?

oh right, i'll have another look at the Friends of D channels and get back to you.

the "for the love of money" vocal refrain pans 360 where the bouncing bass notes in the same mix zig zag.

never heard the Ship Ahoy Q8 but as far as i can recall the SQ LP decodes with same assignment as the SACD but let me double check.

i'll have a listen to the ship creaking effects on the title track, it's been a while since i played the song tbh. its steelydave's story to tell but long & short of it is he has it on the best authority that those diagonal pans and placements were diagonal by design.

 

[fredblue]

well I was totally wrong with the one clockwise channel shift on that Grazin in the grass, my apologies ssully, doing that does indeed make male vocal too prominent in SR.

what a weird mix.. no idea exactly what they were going for with it but this is what I'm hearing on the SACD;

FL = lead vocals, backing vocals, bass, drums, horns, woodwind, muted strings.
vocals in this channel at a lower level than the vocals in the other 3 channels in the mix and most of its a bit indistinct, particularly the vocals.
I think this may be one of the Rear channels.

FR = lead vocals, backing vocals, timbales, tambourine, strings.
much louder and brighter than the FL. seems to be one of the Fronts and perhaps allocated correctly.

SL = lead vocals, backing vocals, strings, reverb of timbales.
not as loud as FR but louder than FL. I think this is the other Rear and may be in the right place.

SR = lead vocals, backing vocals, strings, bass, rhythm guitar, reverb of timbales, fuzz guitar solo.
similar sound to the FR but not as loud. not sure but this may be the other Front.

flipping the channels about on the fly, the most pleasing effect for me right now comes from swapping Front Left with Rear Right but I've no idea if that's right and it was still weird in places, though the female/backing vocals were better centred across the front and the lead male less distracting in the Rear Right than as is on the disc but who knows... there are discrete elements in each channel but then the vocals are a kind of poorly balanced wash and all over the place. funky music, odd mix!