HiRez Poll Thomas, Michael Tilson - RHAPSODY IN BLUE (and more) [SACD]

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Rate the SACD of Michael Tilson Thomas - RHAPSODY IN BLUE (and others)

  • 7:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1: Poor Surround, Poor Presentation, Poor Performance

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6
thanks for all the great info and insight! 😻
so who would you say this collection is ideal for? a casual listener? a Classical newbie? a seasoned Tilson-Thomas aficionado?

Since my main system is being totally renovated and won't be operational for at least 3 weeks, I've been relying on my secondary system which is not as accurate as my new system will be. I did not do a critical review of this two SACD set from D~V but voted a 10 because of the 'perceived' grandeur of having Michael Tilson Thomas' complete QUAD 70's output on two, IMO, well mastered discs.

This set is definitely NOT for casual listeners or newbies; OTOH, those fond of Thomas' early conducting might be well advised to investigate this set as it won't certainly break the bank.

This will most probably be among the first set I audition on my new system and look forward to hearing it as it SHOULD BE HEARD.

For the casual listener, An American in Paris and most especially the Rhapsody in Blue are dynamic performances and probably should've had their own separate disc.

As one can now change votes, if my perception changes so will my vote.

I will be eagerly awaiting other reviews of the Carmina Burana and Beethoven choral music from other QQ posters.

A brief review from David Hurwitz [Classics Today]:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=90616
 
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The classico-philes should weigh in here--I'm just a dilettante. But I'd say that apart from the Beethoven choral pieces, the rest of the set are modern warhorses that regularly show up on pops concert programs. So: casual listener and/or classical newbie, for sure. And if you're only going to have one Carmina Burana in your collection (and who doesn't need Carmina Burana?--it's a rousing piece, you've heard it on a thousand film scores and TV commercials, and the song texts are all about filthy-dirty debauchery committed by a roving band of defrocked priests!), then this still ain't a bad one.

why those dirty rotten carmena miranda hakuna banuna tarts and vicars!!! 🤣
i must audition this disc tout suite!!! if not tout suite-r!! chop chop sweetie, chop chop!!!! 🥳😈💅💃🏾
 
thanks for all the great info and insight! 😻
so who would you say this collection is ideal for? a casual listener? a Classical newbie? a seasoned Tilson-Thomas aficionado?
A classical newbie. But that is based primarily on the choice of repertoire.
 
why those dirty rotten carmena miranda hakuna banuna tarts and vicars!!! 🤣
i must audition this disc tout suite!!! if not tout suite-r!! chop chop sweetie, chop chop!!!! 🥳😈💅💃🏾

And in the time it took you to post this diatribe, MTT's 2 disc SACD set could've already been enroute from the Wunnerful Wizard of Watford as the internet NEVER sleeps!🥳😈💅💃🏾
 
At the risk of sounding like a company man, I didn't find Carmina Burana harsh or over-compressed at all, in fact during O Fortuna I had to ride the volume control a bit because it was considerably more dynamic than the pop/rock/R&B stuff I normally listen to. As a classical neophyte I can't really tell if the performances are flank steak or filet mignon, but there's an exceptional degree of care taken with the mix, which is active, discrete, and is about as far from a "set it and forget it" mix as classical will probably get.

I didn't listen to the entirety of the Late Choral Music album, but it was my impression that if the orchestral backing was blurred or indistinct it was intentional, to kind of serve as a bed for the choruses, which dominate in the quad mix. I really liked how the choruses were arrayed in the quad mix, with the male chorus along one side wall and the female chorus along the other. I wish more pop quad mixes had made use of this kind of stereo side-wall imaging.

As Jon and others have said previously, the Gershwin stuff is the real standout on this compilation. When I suggested this album to Mike I hadn't actually heard it in quad, and I was just kind of crossing my fingers that the quad mix was half-decent - I was worried that as a single-inventory disc that they might make concessions in the quad mix for the benefit of stereo playback, but that's about the furthest thing from the case here. The mix is about as discrete as any of Columbia's pop offerings from 1976, and even has what seemed like some diagonally panned brass at times. I can definitely see myself revisiting this album somewhat regularly in the future. My only disappointment is that given how good it is, that it wasn't longer - it's my understanding that Gershwin made several other piano rolls, and I wish they'd given some of them the same treatment to flesh out the running time. At barely over 32 minutes, I'm not sure why anyone would rather have this album as a single SACD.
 
At the risk of sounding like a company man, I didn't find Carmina Burana harsh or over-compressed at all, in fact during O Fortuna I had to ride the volume control a bit because it was considerably more dynamic than the pop/rock/R&B stuff I normally listen to. As a classical neophyte I can't really tell if the performances are flank steak or filet mignon, but there's an exceptional degree of care taken with the mix, which is active, discrete, and is about as far from a "set it and forget it" mix as classical will probably get.

I didn't listen to the entirety of the Late Choral Music album, but it was my impression that if the orchestral backing was blurred or indistinct it was intentional, to kind of serve as a bed for the choruses, which dominate in the quad mix. I really liked how the choruses were arrayed in the quad mix, with the male chorus along one side wall and the female chorus along the other. I wish more pop quad mixes had made use of this kind of stereo side-wall imaging.

As Jon and others have said previously, the Gershwin stuff is the real standout on this compilation. When I suggested this album to Mike I hadn't actually heard it in quad, and I was just kind of crossing my fingers that the quad mix was half-decent - I was worried that as a single-inventory disc that they might make concessions in the quad mix for the benefit of stereo playback, but that's about the furthest thing from the case here. The mix is about as discrete as any of Columbia's pop offerings from 1976, and even has what seemed like some diagonally panned brass at times. I can definitely see myself revisiting this album somewhat regularly in the future. My only disappointment is that given how good it is, that it wasn't longer - it's my understanding that Gershwin made several other piano rolls, and I wish they'd given some of them the same treatment to flesh out the running time. At barely over 32 minutes, I'm not sure why anyone would rather have this album as a single SACD.

Dave, reading the liner notes for the Carmina Burana, a tremendous amount of love and care went into this production and I should think if one's system is set up properly,* there should be no 'harshness' to the recording. But funny anecdote: when I posted my brief review of David Hurwitz' glowing review of MTT's Carmina Burana [reference post #21 in this thread], the one review on their website, who equally loved it, stated that Carl Orff [the composer] was NOT a fan of MTT's reading of his
classic work. Go figure.

stars_5_0_sh.png
Best Version July 24, 2017By John Banks See All My Reviews"I have several different versions of Carmina and this is the one to have. I may be incorrect but when Columbia re-released it they did so using the "SQ" format, at least that how it seems to me. I know Carl Orff did not like this version but I sure did. Enjoy!"

*I always play all my music at FLAT RESPONSE [NO EQ whatsoever]
 
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At the risk of sounding like a company man, I didn't find Carmina Burana harsh or over-compressed at all, in fact during O Fortuna I had to ride the volume control a bit because it was considerably more dynamic than the pop/rock/R&B stuff I normally listen to. As a classical neophyte I can't really tell if the performances are flank steak or filet mignon, but there's an exceptional degree of care taken with the mix, which is active, discrete, and is about as far from a "set it and forget it" mix as classical will probably get.

I didn't listen to the entirety of the Late Choral Music album, but it was my impression that if the orchestral backing was blurred or indistinct it was intentional, to kind of serve as a bed for the choruses, which dominate in the quad mix. I really liked how the choruses were arrayed in the quad mix, with the male chorus along one side wall and the female chorus along the other. I wish more pop quad mixes had made use of this kind of stereo side-wall imaging.

As Jon and others have said previously, the Gershwin stuff is the real standout on this compilation. When I suggested this album to Mike I hadn't actually heard it in quad, and I was just kind of crossing my fingers that the quad mix was half-decent - I was worried that as a single-inventory disc that they might make concessions in the quad mix for the benefit of stereo playback, but that's about the furthest thing from the case here. The mix is about as discrete as any of Columbia's pop offerings from 1976, and even has what seemed like some diagonally panned brass at times. I can definitely see myself revisiting this album somewhat regularly in the future. My only disappointment is that given how good it is, that it wasn't longer - it's my understanding that Gershwin made several other piano rolls, and I wish they'd given some of them the same treatment to flesh out the running time. At barely over 32 minutes, I'm not sure why anyone would rather have this album as a single SACD.

You may be a company man, Dave, but you're no Organization Man. Besides, we all lurv the company in question.

I think my misgivings about Carmina's sonics may be fed partly by prejudice and nostalgia: my points of reference for that piece are the Atlanta Symphony recordings on Telarc--the original stereo LP with Robert Shaw, which I had as a teenager, and the 5.1 SACD with Donald Runnicles. I remember them both as being exceptionally clean, with lots of "pop." And the early Telarcs, especially, had really exaggerated dynamics.

Anyway, everything you say about the set is true, and besides, as @ubertrout pointed out, it completes (together with the Stravinsky Sacre reissued by Pentatone) MTT's quad catalogue, which makes it worth buying in and of itself. Tilson Thomas is somebody who advocated surround sound from early on, and he still does, with the vast majority of his output with the San Francisco Symphony being recorded in 5.1, some of it with "conductor" or "musician" mixes included as well as "audience" mixes. The latest--out just last week--is a new recording of Charles Ives's Symphonies 3 & 4, which--just sayin'--would make a good companion for the recent Dutton Epoch Gershwin and Copland reissues...
 
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Tilson Thomas is somebody who advocated surround sound from early on, and he still does, with the vast majority of his output with the San Francisco Symphony being recorded in 5.1, some of it with "conductor" or "musician" mixes included as well as "audience" mixes.
And where do you purchase these recent multichannel recordings, particularly the Brant?
 
And where do you purchase these recent multichannel recordings, particularly the Brant?

HDTracks and ProStudio Masters sell the Brant for $6.99; Qobuz has it a buck cheaper. (Still waiting for someone to release the genuine Atmos version on physical media.)

I'll probably get the new Charles Ives from Presto Classical. You can find the rest of the SFS Media back catalogue--at least those items still in print (and even some that aren't)--from Presto and the other usual suspects, including Amazon.
 
HDTracks and ProStudio Masters sell the Brant for $6.99; Qobuz has it a buck cheaper. (Still waiting for someone to release the genuine Atmos version on physical media.)

I'll probably get the new Charles Ives from Presto Classical. You can find the rest of the SFS Media back catalogue--at least those items still in print (and even some that aren't)--from Presto and the other usual suspects, including Amazon.
In multichannel?
 
The Brant?--no. (I was ranting about that on another thread a week or so ago.) They've only released the Brant in binaural, although they're muddying the waters by calling it "Atmos" in all their publicity. You reported that a true Atmos mix was done. But they haven't released it yet AFAIK.
But have you seen the Ives in the wild? In multichannel? Part of the problem is that they advertise any disc as a CD.
 
Haven't laid my hands (or ears) on it yet. And I'm feeling a little chagrined about cluttering up a poll thread here. But SFS Media's press kit says 5.1 multichannel, and so does Presto.
OK. Last statement. SFS always says it but doesn't sell it anymore. Presto is unique in its statement. The other outlets are vague not and/or don't offer multichannel.
 
Yes but the real vendors are less forthcoming.

I was recently 'burned' by purchasing this disc which was touted as an SACD from ImportCD. Most of OUR MUSIC's output with Michala Petri were SACDs, even multichannel.....so the lesson learned: NEVER ASSUME Anything. I should've check with HRaudio.net first who don't even list it. I kept the disc as the sonics and performances on this RBCD are lovely:

https://www.importcds.com/american-recorder-concertos/636943691229
 
You may be a company man, Dave, but you're no Organization Man. Besides, we all lurv the company in question.

I think my misgivings about Carmina's sonics may be fed partly by prejudice and nostalgia: my points of reference for that piece are the Atlanta Symphony recordings on Telarc--the original stereo LP with Robert Shaw, which I had as a teenager, and the 5.1 SACD with Donald Runnicles. I remember them both as being exceptionally clean, with lots of "pop." And the early Telarcs, especially, had really exaggerated dynamics.

Anyway, everything you say about the set is true, and besides, as @ubertrout pointed out, it completes (together with the Stravinsky Sacre reissued by Pentatone) MTT's quad catalogue, which makes it worth buying in and of itself. Tilson Thomas is somebody who advocated surround sound from early on, and he still does, with the vast majority of his output with the San Francisco Symphony being recorded in 5.1, some of it with "conductor" or "musician" mixes included as well as "audience" mixes. The latest--out just last week--is a new recording of Charles Ives's Symphonies 3 & 4, which--just sayin'--would make a good companion for the recent Dutton Epoch Gershwin and Copland reissues...

Expectation and familiarity are really underestimated influences on the listening experience, I've found, and that's why I always take a few listens of something before saying too much about it. I feel like those early listens are all about getting past what something isn't (if it's not living up to your preconceived notions) and then you start to be able to appreciate it for what it is. I think I related this elsewhere, but I had this experience strongly with Tower of Power's Ain't Nothin' Stoppin' Us Now - someone told me they were a funk band, and I grabbed the album simply because it was quad, and I was mightily underwhelmed because I was listening to it waiting for the heavy funk, when in reality it's more of a '60s inspired soul album with some funky flourishes. When I grew up a bit, I got a much better handle on what the band was about, and now I appreciate it on its own merits, rather than grading it based on how much it (doesn't) sound like Parliament-Funkadelic. I think you see the same principle at work with people who claim their speakers sound better after "burn-in" - are we really supposed to believe that the physical structure of speakers changes enough to be audible with usage, and only in a positive direction? I think more likely is that buyers fall in love with their gear as they shed their preconceptions or memories of old speakers, and start to enjoy what they have for what it is - in effect that the only "burn-in" that's happening is actually in their minds.

As an addendum to my previous post, I meant to say that I was really blown away by Gershwin's actual technique on the piano - there were points where I was thinking "he's playing this way too fast" compared to the kind of arrangement I was used to hearing (I understand there are some people who don't like it for this reason) but then I remembered that this was the guy that wrote the thing. Perhaps it's the rock and roll fan in me, but I really enjoyed the fact that the way he preferred to play it wasn't a kind of sedate "slippers and pipe in your easy chair" kind of way.

and now we return you to your regularly scheduled programming, Kal Rubinson talking about everything except for this release.
 
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