NOSOUND - TEIDE 2390 (Live CD/ 5.1 DVD-A/V)

Hi all,


March 2015 should see a new Kscope release for Nosound, more precisely our first official live album!

https://www.burningshed.com/store/nosound/

It features 75 minutes of live music recorded on a Digico/Pro Tools rig during our recent unique gig at Teide Observatory in Tenerife. I'm working on the mixes for stereo and surround 5.1, both normal and high resolution (gig was recorded 24/96 on 24 tracks). Added to this we also have about 40 minutes filmed with 2 HD cameras, plus a GoPro we used all along the trip, and we'll include all this material in an additional short film based on the live performance.

I still don't know if the additional disc will be DVD or a Blu Ray, because replicating costs for the latter are quite high and I'm discussing all the options with Kscope. If we'll able to have a BD I'll include PCM 24/96 of both stereo and 5.1 surround, plus all the video material (plus some extras..) in HD. If DVD I'll necessarily have to drop the stereo hires but will make the surround Dolby & DTS 24/96 (not too bad).

If you have a Twitter or Facebook account and you want to make your voice louder with Kscope asking them to have this new release on Blu Ray, feel free I'm sure it will help our cause

I should have all details about release date, preorders campaign (limited/signed items for early orders) and some previews soon. Also as soon as I know if we'll get a DVD or a BD I'll start the authoring and I might help of some of the fellow members here for some testing as we did before for Nosound releases. I recently updated my production studio so I hope that a BD release will be possible to show the real quality of this material and convince more artists to have their music remixed in 5.1, like we all like!


Will keep you all updated as soon as I get more news, and will create a dedicated final post when all details will be confirmed and final.


Giancarlo

An image I posted yesterday from previous days of surround mix

I have to say that live records maybe more than anything else really 'call' for a 5.1 sound...it makes it immediately more enjoyable and more 'there' instead of just listening to it. If I'll have permission from Kscope I'll release as well a 5.1 preview together with the normal previews we'll have at launch!

nosound said:

Hi all,


March 2015 should see a new Kscope release for Nosound, more precisely our first official live album!

It features 75 minutes of live music recorded on a Digico/Pro Tools rig during our recent unique gig at Teide Observatory in Tenerife. I'm working on the mixes for stereo and surround 5.1, both normal and high resolution (gig was recorded 24/96 on 24 tracks). Added to this we also have about 40 minutes filmed with 2 HD cameras, plus a GoPro we used all along the trip, and we'll include all this material in an additional short film based on the live performance.

I still don't know if the additional disc will be DVD or a Blu Ray, because replicating costs for the latter are quite high and I'm discussing all the options with Kscope. If we'll able to have a BD I'll include PCM 24/96 of both stereo and 5.1 surround, plus all the video material (plus some extras..) in HD. If DVD I'll necessarily have to drop the stereo hires but will make the surround Dolby & DTS 24/96 (not too bad).

If you have a Twitter or Facebook account and you want to make your voice louder with Kscope asking them to have this new release on Blu Ray, feel free I'm sure it will help our cause

I should have all details about release date, preorders campaign (limited/signed items for early orders) and some previews soon. Also as soon as I know if we'll get a DVD or a BD I'll start the authoring and I might help of some of the fellow members here for some testing as we did before for Nosound releases. I recently updated my production studio so I hope that a BD release will be possible to show the real quality of this material and convince more artists to have their music remixed in 5.1, like we all like!


Will keep you all updated as soon as I get more news, and will create a dedicated final post when all details will be confirmed and final.


Giancarlo

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Hi Giancarlo, thank you for the information on the live upcoming release. Looks like it will be a an excellent release.

As always, we are more than happy to do the testing, just let us know

p.s. I noticed the pictures of your new studio, looks great with those KEF50 speakers!

Excellent news, thanks Giancarlo.

Great news indeed, glad we didn't have to push you a lot to have a surround mix included!
I really don't know how to contact Kscope on Facebook or Twitter, but maybe other funding sources are possible (advanced preorders, some kind of deluxe edition with extras at a different price...).
Or you could even release the DVD physically but have the Bluray ISO available for download only. Production cost will be minimal and everybody, I guess, will be happy. It could even be offered at a discounted rate for the DVD buyers

César said:

Great news indeed, glad we didn't have to push you a lot to have a surround mix included!
I really don't know how to contact Kscope on Facebook or Twitter, but maybe other funding sources are possible (advanced preorders, some kind of deluxe edition with extras at a different price...).
Or you could even release the DVD physically but have the Bluray ISO available for download only. Production cost will be minimal and everybody, I guess, will be happy. It could even be offered at a discounted rate for the DVD buyers

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That's an idea, the problem is that by experience we know lots of customers will buy the download (as an .iso) but we have then to offer support for the burning...we did something like that in the past and it's just too much.

I'll think about the Bluray option, or simply I'll consider to release it later on digital download flac 24/96.

In terms of costs and to make it feasible, we'll go with a normal DVD. I had a thought about doing again a DVD-AV, but honestly making DVD-A is always a pain, and in this case to make it all fit would not be enough (45 minutes of video + stereo + dd + dts, and 75 minutes audio stereo + dd +dts, extras). I think instead we'll go with the standard pushing the maximum hires we can with a dual layer DVD nicely made:

1) stereo 24/96 PCM
2) 5.1 surround Dolby Digital (max quality and no processing)
3) 5.1 surround DTS 24/96 (1.5mbps and back compatible with normal DTS

All these formats will be available for the half gig filmed and for the whole audio only (featuring also two different versions of two songs!). It seems to me a good compromise with hires quality and feasible without making final product too expensive for us and so for listeners.

All this unless Kscope at last minute decides they'll do a Bluray for Nosound even if we're not as big as SW or Anathema. Costs involved need quite big sales numbers, but we'll push together as much as we can to release the highest quality we can

hey Giancarlo, you're not consider an option to do 2 discs set DVDV + DVDA, instead of BD?

0tto said:

hey Giancarlo, you're not consider an option to do 2 discs set DVDV + DVDA, instead of BD?

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Hi 0tto

nice to see you again! It's already a two disc set (cd + dvd), cannot make it three discs, it would not be feasible costs wise considering as well the usual deluxe packaging that we'll prepare with Kscope.

And as you know doing a dvd-av on same disc has always problems: authoring of dvd-a is always a pain and is graphically very poor if compared to dvd-v. I did some tests and honestly the difference between DTS 24/96 and MLP 24/96, at least for a live release, is minimal if present at all, several times I fooled myself with a blind test. So basically doing a dvd-a would mean taking out space from quality video encoding on the dvd and more work/potential problems in the authoring and duplication, for a difference that is not really evident and so is not worth it.

I prefer to use all the space for dvd-v and including anyway high quality surround, and spending the time to do a better product overall for most people. Other important Kscope releases (SW) followed this trend leaving behind the dvd-a for dts 24/96 (or bluray) because sadly dvd-a it's more and more abandoned it seems. I might think making a single menu dvd-a side for just the MLP surround, but at the moment I prefer to concentrate releasing a proper dvd-v with stereo pcm, dolby and dts 96/24

Not sure if all this makes sense and sounds sensible

yeah, i was lil'bit off internet activities for a while.
i see your point. but on another hand - CD also is dying format as well, so i guess this release as live performance
can be issued as DVDV only, to make cost cut.
maybe as an extra, every purchased unit can be supplied with code for download of the choice of audio only, such
like 96/24 stereo and 5.1 in flac or even image of DVDA.
i think for those, whos interest in DVDA, doesn't need assistance on how to burn .iso to blank DVD.

0tto said:

yeah, i was lil'bit off internet activities for a while.
i see your point. but on another hand - CD also is dying format as well, so i guess this release as live performance
can be issued as DVDV only, to make cost cut.
maybe as an extra, every purchased unit can be supplied with code for download of the choice of audio only, such
like 96/24 stereo and 5.1 in flac or even image of DVDA.
i think for those, whos interest in DVDA, doesn't need assistance on how to burn .iso to blank DVD.

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From our experience with Kscope and Burning Shed sadly many people buy without knowing before and post sale support in these cases sometimes is really time consuming.

BUT...actually...I got an idea, let me know you people if you like it. WHAT IF I include in the DVD (that might be a dual layer) a data part where I include the lossless Surround 5.1 24/96 flac files? This would avoid all the problems of codes or additional downloads, and I think most people interested in that lossless surround know how to play a .flac surround or burn it somewhere to play it? Compressing those in flac would make them fitting in the dvd.

Let me know...this way the dvd-v would contain all the formats plus the lossless 5.1 24/96 as flac files

I like that idea!!!!

LizardKing said:

I like that idea!!!!

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I understand is a first time, but I think might suggest to other Kscope artists to do the same avoiding all complications of a dvd-a and being able to release anyway an hires lossless surround even without the budget/possibility of a Bluray.

I don't think it's worth it any poll, but if you can let me know here if you like the idea instead of a download/iso/dvd-a for having anyway the highest possible quality surround audio, then I'll do it

I am impressed an artist/producer is actually thinking of the consumers interests. This is a brilliant move. Keep it up, people like this will revolutionise the way we hear music in the future.
You have my support. Steven Wilson has provided FLAC files with the BluRay of his upcoming album.

if space on disc allows, then your suggestion even better.
i'll vote for it. nevertheless i still stick to idea to drop CD.
i have bunch, i got with other DVDA and really absolutely have no use for them.
after all, if DVD will contain flac files, anyone can easily burn own CD if needed.
today all disc burning appz doing such work quite effortless by "push one button" operation.

Good idea Giancarlo, to include the 5.1 FLACs on the dvdv. A good solution for everybody.

Thanks for the feedback, it sounds like we'll go that way, I'll try sorting it out soon!

SW latest album includes the download codes but not the files, while I think considering the amount of space available on these medias (and the relatively small space of a FLAC file) make it ideal to give the file straight away

0tto cd is (luckily or not) far from being dead. We know that when we have a cd/vinyl/bluray/dvd release, the cd is the most played media, dvd follows, bluray is catching up, we have then vinyl, and sadly dvd-a are just a few (in particular because of the Bluray). The cd contains the album and is still the main media for most because is easy and stereo to play everywhere. I think that surround is better, even if I know most people will listen anyway more often to the stereo version (for practical reasons), so is just about balancing the needs of the most while at the same time find a feasible way to provide the top quality for the more discerning ones

Thanks Ranasakawa, I'm a producer and an artist but I'm also at the same time a listener looking for quality, so for every Nosound release I always want to be happy as artist for the content, but then I follow it all the way to the final product because is as important for me to be happy as potential customer buying my own product.

Ok...so we might have find a solution to include lossless 24/96 surround on the dvd...back to the music! 75 minutes of live + 2 encores is a load of material to mix and bounce in all stereo and surround formats!

Hi Giancarlo. I see only a drawback with including separate flac files for a video concert release: this way you will never be able to watch the concert and listen to the lossless audio at the same time. But maybe it's the easiest and cheapest solution

César said:

Hi Giancarlo. I see only a drawback with including separate flac files for a video concert release: this way you will never be able to watch the concert and listen to the lossless audio at the same time. But maybe it's the easiest and cheapest solution

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There's no way of doing that unless we release a BluRay, because DVD-V does not support lossless surround (not enough bandwidth) with video, and DVD-A does not have video. Producing a Bluray is just too expensive for a live album for us at the moment (glass master costs plus the stupid license costs for using the logo), so we can produce a DVD, where you'll get anyway video + surround ( DTS 24/96 surround it really is as good as lossless in this case).

Also there will be only about half gig with film/video, so all in all there's basically no loss in not having video + lossless surround, and this way we can release two discs compatible with all players, and include all the formats/quality from normal stereo to lossless surround, plus all the video contents we have with lossless stereo, top DTS surround quality

It's not cheap solution (you know with Kscope there's no way for cheap solutions but only for the best way to provide top quality to everyone), but it's the only feasible one, and it will allow as well to have a deluxe packaged product top line of Kscope and still at a fair price (that is always good I think )

nosound said:

There's no way of doing that unless we release a BluRay, because DVD-V does not support lossless surround (not enough bandwidth) with video, and DVD-A does not have video. Producing a Bluray is just too expensive for a live album for us at the moment (glass master costs plus the stupid license costs for using the logo), so we can produce a DVD, where you'll not get anyway video + lossless surround (but you get lossless stereo and DTS 24/96 surround that as I said is really as good as lossless).

Also there will be only about half gig with film/video, so all in all there's basically no loss in not having video + lossless surround, and this way we can release two discs compatible with all players, and include all the formats/quality from normal stereo to lossless surround, plus all the video contents we have with lossless stereo, top DTS surround quality

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Fully agree with this approach. Going back to your initial post, I don't even think I could tell the DTS from the lossless stream in a blind test with my current setup (and that includes my ears).
By the way, speaking about the future, it would be great if something can be done so that you can do a gig in "continental" Spain

César said:

Fully agree with this approach. Going back to your initial post, I don't even think I could tell the DTS from the lossless stream in a blind test with my current setup (and that includes my ears).
By the way, speaking about the future, it would be great if something can be done so that you can do a gig in "continental" Spain

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I agree about the blind test, even if for many this is 'annoying' and they would not admit it, I think the difference between a very good lossy conversion and lossless one sometimes is just not there..and I work every day mixing and mastering music in a professional studio. For live releases, where typically you have many mics and lots of bleeding signal into each mic (if they're not re-recording stuff in studio... ), once you get the dynamic and nominal frequencies, you get all that is there and there's not enough 'fine detail' to appreciate differences like for a studio album.

We hope to play "continental" Spain and more Europe next Summer before new studio album!