What's a good classical surround demo???

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aquadad said:
I did get a response from Channel. It seems to be from the recording engineer.
Jared Sacks is the head of the company.
aquadad said:
Although I respect where he is coming from in wanting to capture the essence of the hall itself, almost as if it too were an instrument, I am going to have to pass on this title for now in my quest to find a true surround sound classical title.
What you are asking for is not any more 'true surround' than what he offers. What you are asking for is to place sounds in the surround channels and that is an esthetic decision. In fact, with traditional classical music, all the sources are up-front and only ambience is in the surround.
aquadad said:
I agree with him about the bass channel when it is synthesized it's pretty much a waste of disc space. But when done properly, representing bass instrumentation it's awesome.
That's what bass management is for. The .1 channel is for LFE: EFFECTS.'

I am not disputing your desire for a particular configuration but you should accept that, even as a paying customer, your preferences are not shared by all producers or, in fact, all other paying customers. As I said, if you want the sounds all around you, try TaceT.

Kal
 
Guy Robinson said:
Can't imagine the E. Power Biggs Bach Organ disc without a sub.

I can but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the use of the .1 channel. It has everything to do with bass management.

Kal
 
Kal Rubinson said:
I can but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the use of the .1 channel. It has everything to do with bass management.

Kal

I play most discs with everything large and I leave the sub on all the time. I adjust the sub for every disc that I have. Sometimes it is off or near off. Other times it is cranked. It depends on the amount of low bass in the disc and how much the sub adds to the total sound of the music.
 
OK. In addition to simply recommending the Tacet label for very surrround-y classical, I can specifically recommend their recording of the Mendelssohn Octet but I cannot, offhand, recall what they did with the 0.1 channel.

In addition, other excellent discs with more than ambience in the surrounds are:
1. Music for Organ, Brass and Timpani. The Graham Ashton Brass Ensemble with Duncan Patton, Timpani, Anthony Newman, organ. (Sonora? - SACD)
2. Verdi Requiem (Harnoncort/VPO, RCA Red Seal 82876 61244 2, 2 SCADs)
3. Biber: Missa Christi Resugentis. The English Consort led by Andrew Manze, Harmonia Mundi HMU 807397)

Kal
 
Hello,

Thanks for all the input guys, your points are well taken. I do get it about what classical enthusiasts prefer, but I am still hoping to find something more to my liking. I can't believe I'm the only person that feels this way.

My favorite use of the LFE channel is Brian Bromberg's "Jaco" DVD-A the bass is tight and clear, not just a muddled mess. And the volume level matches the the other channels perfectly.

I use midsize bookshelf speakers in the corners so I really need the extra bass to pull everything together.

Aside from the fact that I want a good demo disc to show off what surround is capable of (other than the hall effect), another reason for wanting the "in the orchestra" effect as opposed to the "watching the orchestra" is because my wife who used to play in an orchestra is always telling me how exhilarating it used to be for her to be surrounded by the sound on the stage. I guess the frustrated musician in me wants to know that feeling.

You see guys, all I'm really trying to do is to get in touch with my feelings.:yikes
 
aquadad said:
Hello,

My favorite use of the LFE channel is Brian Bromberg's "Jaco" DVD-A the bass is tight and clear, not just a muddled mess. And the volume level matches the the other channels perfectly.

A great deal of the bass in this disc (like the 3rd track-Teen Town) comes from the center channel not the sub.
 
Guy Robinson said:
A great deal of the bass in this disc (like the 3rd track-Teen Town) comes from the center channel not the sub.

Yes, you're exactly right on that point. What I like about the actual LFE channel is how you can actually tell what it was contrived from when all the other channels are off. It doesnt just sound like low frequency noise. It sounds like music. Even in the first vocal track "Come On, Come Over" the bass portion of the vocal and the ambience of the other instruments is clearly discernable. They got it right!
 
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aquadad said:
I use midsize bookshelf speakers in the corners so I really need the extra bass to pull everything together.
Not usually a good place to put them.

aquadad said:
Aside from the fact that I want a good demo disc to show off what surround is capable of (other than the hall effect), another reason for wanting the "in the orchestra" effect as opposed to the "watching the orchestra" is because my wife who used to play in an orchestra is always telling me how exhilarating it used to be for her to be surrounded by the sound on the stage. I guess the frustrated musician in me wants to know that feeling.
Aha! Try almost any one of the AIX classical releases. They almost always include tracks with an audience perspective as well as an 'on stage' perspective. The only fly in the ointment is that the format for each perspective is not always MLP but often DD or DTS.

Kal
 
A question was raised re Tacet and Camerata Frieden. They have two releases, both DVD-A's, one a set of Mozart pieces, the other Beethoven Chamber Music. Both are wonderful, and fully use the surround speakers, although probably not the .1 much because, frankly, it doesn't come to play much in Chamber type music. Most Tacet discs contain a pamphlet explaining precisely how the music was recorded, and the position of each instrument. Their web site has data on that also. I agree with Kal that they do some of the best surround chamber music releases.
 
Kal Rubinson said:
Not usually a good place to put them.


Aha! Try almost any one of the AIX classical releases. They almost always include tracks with an audience perspective as well as an 'on stage' perspective. The only fly in the ointment is that the format for each perspective is not always MLP but often DD or DTS.

Kal

Thanks Kal, I've done some checking online and the AIX label does have some interesting titles. Also I'm probably going to get a copy of the Schubert by Camerata Freden on Tacet. I finally found a review that went into detail about the use of the sub and center channels in addition to the placement of the octet arround the listener.

By the way I do adhere to the Wendy Carlos school of thought on speaker placement. My reference to the corners was just a vague generalization. The Marantz integrated amp that drives the 3-way speakers on the floor (see attached diagram) has all the stereo signals funneled through it to the Sansui which drives the four wall mounted 2-way speakers. The Marantz's output is matched to the Sansui's which makes volume control pretty simple. It also has the ability to switch to mono-L, mono-R, mono-L+R, stereo, or stereo-reversed. This gives me a lot of flexibility depending upon whether the sub or center channels are used or not. If it's only one or the other, with a flip of a switch I can drive it monaurally through both channels for extra sound. The extra speakers on the Marantz are switchable between remote or ambient. I use the ambient setting to add to the wrap around speaker placement effect. When both center and sub are used in the mix I can reverse them to get better alignment with the four surround channels that are being driven by the Sansui. Finally the warmth of the Marantz blended with the brightness of the Sansui makes for a nice total sound.
 

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