70'S QUAD FM SYNDICATIONS AND SIMULCASTS-OTHER THAN BBC, KBFH

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kfbkfb

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Going OT again...does anyone have an SQ or QS recording from a 1970s FM Stereo (matrix encoded) broadcast and the same song(s) on an SQ or QS encoded LP (the idea is to compare the decoding [possibly using a Surround Master] of the FM source and the LP source to see if they have about the same directionality)?


Kirk Bayne
 
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kfbkfb

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I'm mainly interested in how the 1970s FM audio processing affected matrix encoded content.

I recall hearing "Bennie and the Jets" on KBEQ FM in the early 1970s, during each bass note, the midrange and treble dropped dramatically in volume level (due to the audio processing at the station), IMHO, this type of extreme audio processing would disrupt matrix quad decoding.


Part 3 covers the 70s, but I didn't see any mention of how audio processing affected matrix quad encoded content.


Kirk Bayne
 
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quadaholic

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Going OT again...does anyone have an SQ or QS recording from a 1970s FM Stereo (matrix encoded) broadcast and the same song(s) on an SQ or QS encoded LP (the idea is to compare the decoding [possibly using a Surround Master] of the FM source and the LP source to see if they have about the same directionality)?


Kirk Bayne
Kirk, that is a good question. Off the top of my head, I would say the BeBob Deluxe BBC show from 76 would be one to compare, as I think the encoded master has been released. having said that, totally separate from the issues you are talking about, a pre-fm decode should pretty much always sound better, just because the audio isn't going through all those extra stages in the broadcast chain.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Going OT again...does anyone have an SQ or QS recording from a 1970s FM Stereo (matrix encoded) broadcast and the same song(s) on an SQ or QS encoded LP (the idea is to compare the decoding [possibly using a Surround Master] of the FM source and the LP source to see if they have about the same directionality)?


Kirk Bayne

Might be a dead end for this type of recording off of a 70's matrix broadcast. I mean, anyone who did this has likely tossed it or would have replaced it with the actual encoded lp.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Looking through my BIllboard notes and here's one I forgot.

February 02 ,1974 pg 39

SQ growth :
30 software companies Worldwide (4 in Germany)
Motorola and Fairchild mailing Professional I C, SQ chips .
CBS servicing 300 FM stations with SQ material.
All top gold discs such as Santana Abraxis and Edgar Winter They Only Come Out At Night in SQ .
 

fizzywiggs41

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Here we go again...........this time FM nonsense from 77 and 78 Billboard. :cool:


January 12,1977 pg 10

"Broadcasting is the proving ground for the new sound to come in the 70's and beyond.
AM Stereo systems to be highlighted at the Washington HIFI Stereo Show . Also waiting in the wings is Discrete 4-Channel Quadcasting and perhaps a resolution of the competing Sansui QS and CBS SQ matrix quad broadcasting ,now on the air.
Both are now in use by a growing list of FM stations "


February 26th 1977 pg 34

"Kevin Childs program director at KWOD FM Sacramento ,reports that his new 50,000 Watt 24 hour Sansui Quad Station offers 6 hours a night of a Jazz (QS).
Jim St John hosts the show Crossroads Of Jazz ,while the stations format is adult contemporary. The Jazz is heard from 10pm to 4am , and includes Mc Coy Turner, Cal Tjader , Stanley Turrentine , George Benson , Milt Jackson , Chick Corea , John Coltrane , Herbie Hancock , and Ira Sullivan.
 

fizzywiggs41

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February 12 ,1977 pg 10

"Live From The Bottom Line" bowed January 30th in over 55 College towns. The show is being brought to Air by DIR Broadcasting ,same as "The King Biscuit Flower Hour" , and other shows in syndication. The venue is mixed Live in Manhattan.
All the shows will be on TDK Audua Open Reel . The SPARKS and Roger Mc Guinn open the series. And Elvin Bishop will be upcoming ." (No mention of quad format)


March 05th 1977 pg 14

KWOD ON THE AIR .
Sacramento KWOD FM , used a Sansui QSE -5B Quad Encoder with their adult contemporary, according to Kevin Childs . And at night Jim St John's hosts a 6 hour Jazz Program.
 

kfbkfb

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It seems to me that the FM (matrix) quad stations could have explained how to get (cheap) surround sound by using a speaker matrix hookup - it would have partially decoded both QS and SQ.


Kirk Bayne
 

fizzywiggs41

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April 02nd 1977 pgs20,51

FCC EVALUATION OF "Q" CONTINUING
The FCC is halfway through phase 1 of Matrix and Discrete systems.
"The lab tests are being conducted to get information on the advanced or enhanced 2 channel matrix not available to the NQRC at the time of it's Discrete FM field tests.
Five systems are being used , 444 Discrete using 4channel tape, 434 Discrete RCA 's 3 channel Discrete option , and 3 advanced Matrix systems (424). CBS SQ , Q , Sansui QS , and the BBC MATRIX H proposals.
Phase 1 should be complete then phase 2 , by some which is stereo folddown or stereo-mono compatability.


April 11th 1977 pg 28

Chicago Opera in radio series for 200 stations.
Chicago 's Lyric Opera is scheduled to debut 23rd of April ,produced by WFMT FM . The syndicationed series offers the opening night productions of the Lyric 76-77 series in stereo and four channel . The season series were broadcast live over WFMT and should be available in most cities Saturday afternoon at 2 pm Eastern hour .
Operas heard in the series : The Tale of Hoffmann, L a Cerentola , Rigoletto , Unbello in Mashera , Khovanshchina , Tosca , and Love for 3 Oranges 🍊.
 

fizzywiggs41

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April 30th 1977 pg 8687

"CBC SQ QUAD"
Canada goes "Q" Classical on CBC Radio..........(CBC= The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation)

Using mostly SQ recordings and SQ material and Live SQ from The BBC , Andrew Marshall's "In The Middle Of The Music" is the first 'Q' Classical Series on Canada's FM networks.
Canada's rapidly expanding cross-Continent FM Stereo Network launched it's first 4 Channel series Sunday April 30th . The premiere on " In The Middle Of The Music " is hosted and produced by Andrew Marshall
The Quadraphonic Classical series , an outgrowth of experimental programs ,broadcast by Marshall over CBC FM the past year is his extensive collection of mostly SQ recordings, plus SQ material and live performances recorded in SQ by The BBC in England.
With 8 stereo stations now on the air , the CBC claims the longest stereo network anywhere in the World , and one of the highest quality with a good signal up to 15khz , according to Roger Mossop , Coverage Planning Officer ,for the CBC for the CBC Radio Service in Toronto.
Penetration is as high as 90 per cent in some of the border cities , like Toronto on it's 1500 foot high transmitter on top of the CN Tower . He notes the network stretches from St John ,Newfoundland to Vancouver, BC ., in between are Halifax ,Nova Scotia , Montreal , Ottawa ,Calgary Alberta , and Winnipeg Manitoba.
By next year at this time Mossop says the CBC is programmed for new outlets in Regina (May 01) , Fredericton N B in the Fall , Sydney N S and Windsor Ont (Dec) , Saskatoon SASK, and London ,Ontario (Spring 78).
Both he and Richard Coulter of the BBC music department are working with Marshall on the series ,and see the Quadraphonic series as a prime example of programming to get the most out of network penetration. CBC is committed to all 13 week programs , with an option for renewal ,notes Marshall.
Now 34 he has been a CBC Announcer , and a record producer. He began the first Hifi education Radio program, Audio Ideas ,in 1972 in Toronto CKFM ,as a freelance writer and currently the editor of the monthly "Audio Market News", one of the Dominions leading hifi trade papers.
Marshall notes that he expects the series not only to provide greater realism of Quadraphonic Sound to those listeners with SQ and QS Matrix systems, but also to allow headphones listeners to hear greater directional and ambient effects.


Acknowledging CBS Technology Center in Stamford Connecticut, most of the program is in SQ . First program is (Saturday? 30th).
The possibility of originating some programs in Canada is in the future ,using an SQ Encoder , and the new Ghent Microphone , particularly if the program catches on with listeners.

The opening show will be a Sampler of what's to come ,he notes . Included are excerpts of "The Concert Of The Century" in Carnegie Hall on Columbia SQ records ,Scott Joplin's The Entertainer with E Power Biggs and the opening movement of Mahler's Symphony #1 with Haitink conducting The London Philharmonic.
Marshall shares the view of many in the Music industry in North America and abroad that Quadraphonic Broadcasting is the only means to salvage the 4 Channel medium . And perhaps to provide a new impetus for software sales.
CBC is committed to 13 shows initially.


😀
 

MidiMagic

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It seems to me that the FM (matrix) quad stations could have explained how to get (cheap) surround sound by using a speaker matrix hookup - it would have partially decoded both QS and SQ.

Kirk Bayne

I have an adjustable speaker matrix setup that completely decodes QS, EV, DQ, and DS. It also partially decodes SQ.

I built several of these decoders (the first in 1971). I am still using one in my kitchen.

uq-1-o.gif
 
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quadaholic

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Here we go again...........this time FM nonsense from 77 and 78 Billboard. :cool:


January 12,1977 pg 10

"Broadcasting is the proving ground for the new sound to come in the 70's and beyond.
AM Stereo systems to be highlighted at the Washington HIFI Stereo Show . Also waiting in the wings is Discrete 4-Channel Quadcasting and perhaps a resolution of the competing Sansui QS and CBS SQ matrix quad broadcasting ,now on the air.
Both are now in use by a growing list of FM stations "


February 26th 1977 pg 34

"Kevin Childs program director at KWOD FM Sacramento ,reports that his new 50,000 Watt 24 hour Sansui Quad Station offers 6 hours a night of a Jazz (QS).
Jim St John hosts the show Crossroads Of Jazz ,while the stations format is adult contemporary. The Jazz is heard from 10pm to 4am , and includes Mc Coy Turner, Cal Tjader , Stanley Turrentine , George Benson , Milt Jackson , Chick Corea , John Coltrane , Herbie Hancock , and Ira Sullivan.
Fizzy,

Considering the discrepancy between what these industry papers said and the small amount of encoded sources that have been found to confirm these claims, I keep wondering if some of these stations were actually doing what they said they were doing. Seems like "saying" and actually "doing" might not have been always consistent.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Fizzy,

Considering the discrepancy between what these industry papers said and the small amount of encoded sources that have been found to confirm these claims, I keep wondering if some of these stations were actually doing what they said they were doing. Seems like "saying" and actually "doing" might not have been always consistent.


I don't think so ,considering the amount of time that has passed since these matrix broadcasts.
Also some were short lived , 13 weeks series etc.
We have an admission that our good quad fellow @Soundfield tossed out his quad tapes ,for reasons of time , quad is gone and won't return.
I'm sure that was a valid reason given the amount of time passed by.

Also I'm not sure if it was you that mentioned you saw a Sansui Encoder at a radio station unused or unplugged ?
Given that in September 75 ,the FCC "banned all 24 hour quad enhancement" stations ,that would be normal.
I agree with that decision btw ,they should be playing the real thing ,which meant encoding from discrete sources.
And that would be an added expense, but necessary IMHO.
So that gives us the real thing in SQ or QS or H broadcasts of bands or artists from a variety of live venues . Nothing wrong with that.

Oh I agree that your frustrated by not finding much of anything in matrix quad ,as I am as well. I'm also disturbed by the lack of information regarding this source of quad back in the 70's. Little or no advertising from the Quad matrix proponents ......even Ben Bauer admits and apologized that this was a disservice to the quad listening public.


And remember that statement which rings true ,and is repeated all throughout the 77/78 FCC hearings.

Namely : Sansui QS and CBS SQ matrix quad broadcasting is now on the air . Both are now in use by a growing list of FM stations.

A
nyway there is more to come......
 

quadaholic

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I don't think so ,considering the amount of time that has passed since these matrix broadcasts.
Also some were short lived , 13 weeks series etc.
We have an admission that our good quad fellow @Soundfield tossed out his quad tapes ,for reasons of time , quad is gone and won't return.
I'm sure that was a valid reason given the amount of time passed by.

Also I'm not sure if it was you that mentioned you saw a Sansui Encoder at a radio station unused or unplugged ?
Given that in September 75 ,the FCC "banned all 24 hour quad enhancement" stations ,that would be normal.
I agree with that decision btw ,they should be playing the real thing ,which meant encoding from discrete sources.
And that would be an added expense, but necessary IMHO.
So that gives us the real thing in SQ or QS or H broadcasts of bands or artists from a variety of live venues . Nothing wrong with that.

Oh I agree that your frustrated by not finding much of anything in matrix quad ,as I am as well. I'm also disturbed by the lack of information regarding this source of quad back in the 70's. Little or no advertising from the Quad matrix proponents ......even Ben Bauer admits and apologized that this was a disservice to the quad listening public.


And remember that statement which rings true ,and is repeated all throughout the 77/78 FCC hearings.

Namely : Sansui QS and CBS SQ matrix quad broadcasting is now on the air . Both are now in use by a growing list of FM stations.

A
nyway there is more to come......
Well, here's hoping that things still continue to surface. I wasn't aware of anyone tossing tapes, but that is definitely a bummer. If you hear anything about people tossing quad tapes, just send them my way, as I"d be happy to take a shot at transferring them as long as the tapes aren't too far gone! Finally, that wasn't me that saw a quad encoder in a radio station.
 

kfbkfb

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On the speaker matrix (partially) decoding both QS and SQ issue - perhaps the matrix encoder makers didn't want a competing system mentioned (since DynaQuad was a full fledged matrix encoding/decoding system).

I read Billboard every week after discovering it at the library in the fall of 1974, I don't recall much about matrix encoded FM broadcasts though (I photocopied a few FM stereo/matrix quad related things).

The main thing I remember was when CBS tried to get QS banned for use on FM stereo, claiming that the QS encoder reduced the L/R FM stereo separation to ~8dB.


Kirk Bayne
 

Soundfield

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Well, here's hoping that things still continue to surface. I wasn't aware of anyone tossing tapes, but that is definitely a bummer. If you hear anything about people tossing quad tapes, just send them my way, as I"d be happy to take a shot at transferring them as long as the tapes aren't too far gone! Finally, that wasn't me that saw a quad encoder in a radio station.
I tossed mine out 40 years ago (so if you want them you'd need a TARDIS!). They were abandoned on moving house not specifically because the were quad (although I had long lost interest in matrix systems since the decoders of the day were rubbish), but because they were on cassette which I realised was another format which had no future!
 

quadaholic

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I tossed mine out 40 years ago (so if you want them you'd need a TARDIS!). They were abandoned on moving house not specifically because the were quad (although I had long lost interest in matrix systems since the decoders of the day were rubbish), but because they were on cassette which I realised was another format which had no future!
Yes, no chance of pulling a tardis out of the hat. Encoded cassettes can be a can of worms, even under the best circumstances. Anyway, the offer still stands - anyone with tapes they are looking to ditch send them my way and I'll get them on the computer.
 

fizzywiggs41

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After reading thar article in BB regarding the CBC !! quadcasting in SQ , ..... I was so very pissed off 😢!!

Why ,because I had asked them around that time if they ever had quad programs either active or not.

The chap on the phone said no ,but occasionally they play quad records .

So it would seem FM Stations had a lackadaisical interest in an any quad promotions. And yes I'm aware that the timing was in that period of "Quadraphonics is a dirty word".



Interesting that Andrew Marshall had the backing of the BBC Transcriptions quad mucky muck.

But even more interesting is that CBS gave him an SQ GHENT MIC SYSTEM for engineering recordings.
That's a bit of a wow factor , I think !?



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