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A few I know of...

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Cai Campbell

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Okay, to get the ball rolling:

Santana - Lotus (SQ)
Lucifer's Friend - Lucifer's Friend (SQ)
Ned Lagin/Phil Lesh - Seastones (SQ)

We should probably include catalog numbers, cuz some titles have been released multiple times where one release is not quad and a later one is. Example of this is the latest Nektar release (I forget the title, but someone will remind me). The original was not quad (actually, half quad) and the current release is the original SQ recording.


 

Scottmoose

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I'll second that. Where else could you find such a mine of information that so few people know about. I'm beginning to wonder what the policy to follow should be: tell the world, or keep it quiet!:D
 

timbre4

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Verified with Marantz 4270 w/SQA2b about two years ago. This was startling and wonderful. She is supposed to be preparing her catalog (except the 1st Switched On Bach) for DVD-A but no word as yet. In the meantime.....

It's been a while since I asked; Hey Tab, when can we do this one, please?:D

timbre4
 
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captainwrong

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Is this a CBS release or East Side Digital?

Considering all the bad mouthing Wendy does of SQ on her site, it suprizes me that she'd allow a SQ mix to make it to CD.


 
S

sqdave1975

Guest
It's funny, I recently emailed Wendy about this very same subject. I would have thought that the 1st "Switched on Bach" would be very easy to convert to a DVD-A or SACD multichannel as I have no doubt that the 4 channel discrete tape still exists. This is probably one of my favorite albums, would be great to hear a digital multichannel version.
I know that Wendy is not a fan of SQ, but reading through her pages she kind of gave CD-4 the thumbs up, and even had some test Quadradiscs pressed, but CBS baulked.
I will post her reply to my letter, if one comes through.
 

Cai Campbell

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Wendy is not terribly clear on the matter. After reading through the various references to Sonic Seasonings on her website, here is what I was able to surmise:

1. Both an SQ and stereo version of the album was released.
2. Wendy hated the SQ decoding of the album, so she requested that it be withdrawn and Sony agreed.
3. The stereo version of the recording is "almost quad" and was produced using some custom encoding based on RM circuitry.

So, it would seem that if you have a copy of the LP with the SQ logo, you have a rare bird! My guess is the CD was produced with the "regular" stereo master but decodes wonderfully because of the "almost quad" RM encoding.

This, of course, assumes that all the info on Wendy's website is accurate...

 
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captainwrong

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Is this where we're supposed to add titles?

Sun Ra's Space is the Place is QS encoded. IT's the current Impulse release in a digipack. I think there is a similarily titled collection on Evidence (who hold rights to the majority of Ra's catalog) but it is NOT the same album.

Trying to decipher Sun Ra's disography will give even the most dedicated crate digger a headache.


 

bming

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Ned Lagin/Phil Lesh - Seastones (SQ)

I'm almost positive that this title is QS. I could be wrong though. Also along the same lines as Phil Lesh, Grateful Dead "Steal Your Face" 2 CD set, is QS encoded.
Brian
 

Cai Campbell

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"Seastones" is without a doubt an SQ recording. It says so right on the record label. This was the one-and-only version produced. It decodes very nicely through the Tate. The problem is trying to listen to it for more than a few minutes. It is a challenging listening. Kind of like an ambient "Metal Machine Music".

 

timbre4

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It is in fact an East Side Digital release.

There is a lot of essential information within the generous Switched On Box Set CD booklet. (it's a novel) You'll get details on when every piece of equipment showed up, what effect it had on the recording enviroment or even the musical arrangements.

She does dis SQ readily but not 4 channel sound. My thinking was that the SQ master was used, but it's not clear.

All I can say for certain is that the full logic SQA2b loved it and provided me with a thrilling quad playback.

timbre4
 

timbre4

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Please post the letter when you can.

The comments I read indicated she had strong feelings that the 1st album (SOB) was never meant for quad or surround, no matter how much we would beg to differ.

I'm surprised that no one has repeated her stated preference for 4 speakers in a 1/2 circle arc in front of you instead of the "customary" 360 degree surround field we know and love.

timbre4
 

timbre4

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Great post; but I must disagree with the word withdrawn.

This term implies that SQ records were pressed & packaged but never distributed. The SQ version did make it into retail and the Schwann catalog as well.

I saw the SQ release in the store, then learned that my expected Q8 was not ever going to arrive. This would have been a two tape set and therefore the marketing geniuses put the brakes on it. [same thinking led to SQ only releases like Miles Davis - Bitches Brew, Don Ellis - Teas Of Joy, etc]

separate post with quotes from Sonic Seasonings follow...

timbre4
 

timbre4

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Here are excerpts from the Sonic Seasonings 2 CD re-issue from East Side Digital in 1998:

"There is a long-overdue demand for a definitive two track stereo re-release of Sonic Seasonings. New developments will make it possible to do a real multi-channel stereo version as well. That will be personally very satisfying to me. After all, back in 1971, I had requested that CBS release the album using the then new CD-4 true Quadraphonic system. CBS refused, wishing to use their imitation, psuedo-quad compromise, SQ. A standoff.

Another big surprise after all these years is that two track stereo is still the standard, most popular method of music reproduction found in the world, a status not about to be replaced anytime soon. This deluxe edition will therefore satisfy that genuine need.

We have used every possible care to insure the integrity of this digital master to the original mixed tapes. The actual 3M tape machine used to record those first generation surround masters was painstakenly refurbished and brought up to spec. Other than Dolby, no auxiliary equipment was placed in the circuit path into our high resolution A/D convertors. The 4 to 2 channel "fold-in" reduction was fed directly to the DAW, replicating the process I'd developed originally for our CBS two track masters, including that "nearly quad" property. I hope you enjoy hearing all the details, clarity and sonic details, clarity and sonic depth that remained inaudible until now."

- Wendy Carlos, 1998

In summary: Her process must be quite complimentary to matrix quad techniques. It sounded discrete to me, but then, without having ever heard the quad version, I've no way to know what she intended. All I know is that it's wonderful and proves she was way ahead of time, as other works surfaced years later by others like Brian Eno.

I'll be glad when the real mccoy DVD-A/SACD is issued and we'll chuckle about these discussions!

timbre4
 
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captainwrong

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Thanks for all the info. I'd love to get the Switched on Set, but I guess now I'm kinda holding out to see what (if anything) comes out in some kind of multi-channel format.

And regarding Wendy's half circle speaker perference, that's what I use actually. Due to the layout of my living room, it was basically that or nothing. It's pretty good though. Good enough for me anyway.


 

Scottmoose

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As regard the first Switched on Bach, yep, it was released, and got some rave reviews on SQ. Or at least until she heard it, and decided the matrix threw out half of the sound that she thought (I suppose rightly) was vital, and requested that it was withdrawn. I was under the impression however, that all of her music pretty much since time immemorial was mixed in discrete 4 channel or better. Ergo, I suspect we'll be seeing it at some point, probably on DVD-A as she seems quite fornd of that format.
BTW, that's two of us that use the semi-circle layout. Beats a speaker in four corners any day. I even like and use the width stereo she mentions (you know, keep stereo source across all four speakers, and back the sides down a few db.)
Very effective. :D
 

Marcsten

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I've taken the time to read much of the Wendy Carlos site. I can't say I've read it all as it is quite lengthy. Her dissatisfaction with sq stems from two things, both legit when SOB came out at the dawn of quad, that is, separation sucked and the sq mix was done before the engineers understood how to do it. Therefore, the phase characteristics of sq lead to some bizarre and unplanned results when sq discs were played in stereo and mono. Later, the engineers discovered that they actually had to run the quad master through the encoder, then play it back in stereo (and a logic decoder) to see how the playback behaved. In those early days when SOB came out it was churned into the encoder and pressed however it sounded. Wendy mainly wanted the separation of cd4. There were some jvc test pressings made of her work which cbs of course refused to issue. If she had stuck it out, she probably would have been ok with either system but her experience mirrors much of the quad buying public: Excitement, disappointment, frustration, rejection. Oh those temperamental artist types!
Marc
 

Quadzilla

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I guess it makes sense when you think about it. Since synth music is composed entirely of waveforms, adding the additional waveform information for the SQ matrix could result in a lot of weird interactions. From my high school physics, I can vaguely recall phase cancellations and other stuff I probably failed at the time. Anyway, just a few thoughts from a musician ... not a technician. Bon Voyage, Mike.
 
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