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A Possibility... Or a Labeling Screwup?

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martin.leese

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
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Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
.... My problem with UHJ (BHJ) is I just think they went too far with the compatibility for center back and such in mono - phase shifts are just 'unpleasant' for me when I hear them like CF in UHJ. Now full G-Format Ambisonic, like the first demo DTS CD I have from Jeffrey Silberman sounds incredible - I can hear people talking all around and can even 'place' them in distance. 2-channel UHJ - especially decoded - just sounds like a phase-y mess to me. But G-Format from B-Format - WOW!
There are over 200 such pieces available for free download from Ambisonia.com. All these can be downloaded either in B-Format (for which you will need a decoder), or in "G-Format" (decoded for four speakers arranged in a square). G-Format is just speaker feeds minus some fancy stuff like shelf filtering.

Yes, the designers of two-channel UHJ tried to do a lot of things at once: Mono compatibility, stereo compatibility, and good decoding to surround. Note that you can obtain the first two things from B-Format by producing either Blumlein Mid-Side or Blumlein Crossed Pair stereo feeds. These conversions are described in the Xiph Wiki. These have the advantage of no phase shifts whatsover. Their disadvantage is that they cannot be decoded back to surround sound.

It seems you can do any two of the three things really well.

Regards,
Martin
 

Disclord

900 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
944
Location
Plattsburg, MO (just outside Kansas City)
There are over 200 such pieces available for free download from Ambisonia.com. All these can be downloaded either in B-Format (for which you will need a decoder), or in "G-Format" (decoded for four speakers arranged in a square). G-Format is just speaker feeds minus some fancy stuff like shelf filtering.

Yes, the designers of two-channel UHJ tried to do a lot of things at once: Mono compatibility, stereo compatibility, and good decoding to surround. Note that you can obtain the first two things from B-Format by producing either Blumlein Mid-Side or Blumlein Crossed Pair stereo feeds. These conversions are described in the Xiph Wiki. These have the advantage of no phase shifts whatsover. Their disadvantage is that they cannot be decoded back to surround sound.

It seems you can do any two of the three things really well.

Regards,
Martin
Is the Ambisonia domain dead? I just tried to connect and it's failed on every PC and browser I've tried.
 

martin.leese

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
20
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Is the Ambisonia domain dead? I just tried to connect and it's failed on every PC and browser I've tried.
Yes, it is dead, and its demise is permanent. Here is a post on the sursound e-mailing list from Etienne, its creator:

e deleflie / Tue Mar 1 20:35:45 EST 2011:

>> Unfortunately ambisonia.com seems to be unobtainium. I know this has been
>> asked before but is ambisonia.com archived anywhere and will it be available
>> again?

ambisonia.com is down permanently. Apologies for any inconvenience.
There is a chance that Paul Hodges might host some of Ambisonia's
content on his servers. But it will be under a different umbrella.

> Part of it seems to be here: http://www.soundofspace.com/

I am using soundOfSpace.com as a test bed for various ideas. It is in
permanent beta for now. Use it at your own risk.

Etienne
However, I am confident that the content will appear somewhere else. 200 pieces are simply too many to lose for ever.

Regards,
Martin
 

martin.leese

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
20
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Previously unknown ambisonics
The consensus is that the Star Trek Audio Programs are not UHJ-encoded (although Transformations does mention "ambisonic 3-D sound" on the box).

Not sure about The Corndogs. Note that although a "Calrec Ambisonic Microphone" was used, this may have been used in one of its stereo modes. (Calrec later became SoundField Limited, and still manufactures Ambisonic mics.) The only way to be sure would be to contact the sound engineer, who appears to be Peter Moore. In what year was it recorded (your image is a bit blurred, and I can't read the copyright year)?

Regards,
Martin
 

fizzywiggs41

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
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Messages
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Location
wpg, mb
Says "captured live under the marquee toronto, canada on april 09,1989"

a bit blurry but a double tap of my tablet defines it better as it expands.
 

martin.leese

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
20
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Says "captured live under the marquee toronto, canada on april 09,1989"

a bit blurry but a double tap of my tablet defines it better as it expands.
This Wikipedia page confirms that the CD was released in April 1989. I have e-mailed Peter J Moore and asked him if he remembers whether the recording is UHJ-encoded. If he replies then I will post back here.

The Star Trek Audio Programs have the Dolby logo and "Dolby System" on them. They do not mention UHJ nor display the Ambisonic logo. A recording cannot be both UHJ and Dolby MP encoded, so they are more likely to be Dolby MP. They should therefore be decoded with a Dolby Surround or Pro Logic decoder.

Regards,
Martin
 

fizzywiggs41

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
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Messages
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Location
wpg, mb
This Wikipedia page confirms that the CD was released in April 1989. I have e-mailed Peter J Moore and asked him if he remembers whether the recording is UHJ-encoded. If he replies then I will post back here.

The Star Trek Audio Programs have the Dolby logo and "Dolby System" on them. They do not mention UHJ nor display the Ambisonic logo. A recording cannot be both UHJ and Dolby MP encoded, so they are more likely to be Dolby MP. They should therefore be decoded with a Dolby Surround or Pro Logic decoder.

Regards,
Martin
The Captain Sulu are cassettes and the dolby system refers to noise reduction.The original packaging mentioned binaural
so when I first got them I thought bonus uhj as well even though I had doubts.

Here are a couple more pics but know n discs:20150307_202719.jpg
 

martin.leese

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
20
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The Captain Sulu are cassettes and the dolby system refers to noise reduction.The original packaging mentioned binaural
so when I first got them I thought bonus uhj as well even though I had doubts.
I own the CD of Transformations, and the box and CD sleeve still state "Dolby System". I therefore hope this does not refer to noise reduction.

Binaural is the other possibility and, according to this Star Trek Wiki, the third installment of the Captain Sulu Adventures is "recorded in binaural 3-D sound". However, I see no mention of binaural anywhere else.

Regards,
Martin
 

fizzywiggs41

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
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Location
wpg, mb
Used to have that Corndogs on cd. But back in 2001 I sold off a large number of my cd collection-locally.Had approx. 500 cds and close to half were uhj or sometimes sq, qs, mp, hts, etc.

Only kept afew but over the past 5-7 yrs have been replenishing some.
It is a slow process and of course I'm busy purchasing dvd, sacd, dvda, dtscd.



derek
 
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