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jimfisheye

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Owning ALL your masters would be the wisest choice for most musicians me thinks.

So Wonder would join an exclusive club such as Frank Zappa , King Crimson (Fripp) , Jethro Tull (Ian Anderson) , Neil Young , and Van Morrison .....to name a few.

Segue to Frank Zappa brings up the news (olde news actually) that he was recordng ALL of his live concerts in quad. According to BB JAN 12 74 Pg 18 plus Pg 30...... he had a four channel reel-reel and used it well..
Says mostly ambient for the rear channels however.
From memory...

He had a stereo array over the drums and then a stereo array in front of the stage.
The track Ship Ahoy in quad is a good example.
 

fredblue

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Hi freddums.

Right b you I am almost 99% certain Elton John's -Caribou ....was mixed in the new quad facility (Guercero's Caribou ranch ) as they were boasting quad mixes with it's opening.
interestinly enough a large number of adverts of new releases did end up in quad at a later date ....such as BTO Not Fragile , A large number of Columbia records , Rod Stewart Smiler , Moody Blues 7th Sojourn and many others.

Also David Bowie -David Live was mixed in quad by Eddie Kramer at Electric Lady .....with both Tony Visconti and David Bowie in attendance. (BB SET 28 74 , PG 20)


Baker Bigsby....... The Stones brought him the Jamaican tapes (Goats Head Soup) to Village Recorders because they like the way he "sweetened" his mixes.
very interesting, FW! (y)
i remember at least one of my versions of EJ's "Caribou" being pretty good in QS.. hmm.. 🤔
 

J. PUPSTER

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Owning ALL your masters would be the wisest choice for most musicians me thinks.

So Wonder would join an exclusive club such as Frank Zappa , King Crimson (Fripp) , Jethro Tull (Ian Anderson) , Neil Young , and Van Morrison .....to name a few.

Segue to Frank Zappa brings up the news (olde news actually) that he was recordng ALL of his live concerts in quad. According to BB JAN 12 74 Pg 18 plus Pg 30...... he had a four channel reel-reel and used it well..
Says mostly ambient for the rear channels however.
If only they’d get them out, I’m not gettin’ any younger; but just for kicks ran JOE’S GARAGE through the SMv2 last night and I was in crew slut, Telefunken U47 cyborg heaven for a while😋
 

DuncanS

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If only they’d get them out, I’m not gettin’ any younger; but just for kicks ran JOE’S GARAGE through the SMv2 last night and I was in crew slut, Telefunken U47 cyborg heaven for a while😋
Must be 30 years ago, I was sitting in a largish recording studio in London listening to Joe's Garage for the first time, it was pounding out very very loudly through the control rooms main speakers, loved it even if my ears were bleeding!, it was one of the studio's engineers favourite albums, I went and got the CD ASAP afterwards!
 

jimfisheye

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If only they’d get them out, I’m not gettin’ any younger; but just for kicks ran JOE’S GARAGE through the SMv2 last night and I was in crew slut, Telefunken U47 cyborg heaven for a while😋
Yeah, that's just sad. 25 years ago now (damn...) I had visions of the archives being opened up and fan club live releases every month. 24 bit masters eventually. All the surround stuff.

Goddamnit! :(

The "Ampex guitar solos" bit was pretty cutting edge at the time on that one!
I don't think it was songs like Catholic Girls that got him in trouble either. More tracks like Packard Goose.
 

J. PUPSTER

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Yeah, that's just sad. 25 years ago now (damn...) I had visions of the archives being opened up and fan club live releases every month. 24 bit masters eventually. All the surround stuff.

Goddamnit! :(

The "Ampex guitar solos" bit was pretty cutting edge at the time on that one!
I don't think it was songs like Catholic Girls that got him in trouble either. More tracks like Packard Goose.
o_O Packard Goose, isn't that an instrumental? Also the album cover might have contributed to a wee bit of trouble.
 

jimfisheye

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o_O Packard Goose, isn't that an instrumental? Also the album cover might have contributed to a wee bit of trouble.
Just thinking of the line "I believe you are the government's whore and keeping people dumb is where you're coming from."
I think he sealed the deal right away on his first album though with Hungry Freaks Daddy

Packard Goose does have a big instrumental section with one of the Ampex solos too. All those parts just kick ass so much. And he sync'd all this together that perfectly and tightly with all analog tape technology.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Even if the artist owns their masters, the bigger question is where and how are they stored.
As the Universal Fire demonstrates.
Well Brian, the Universal fire demonstrates why the artists should own their own and properly store them.
you would think that facility would have incorporated much better fire safety measures such as that of a computer room (halon gas emitters) .
Obviously UMG was sloppy with other peoples art (those tapes), even though they had full use of them.
They just don't know what is missed til there gone........surely back up copies could have been made on digital format.
Such a waste.
 

fizzywiggs41

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very interesting, FW! (y)
i remember at least one of my versions of EJ's "Caribou" being pretty good in QS.. hmm.. 🤔
Don't know whether or not they had a Sansui Encoder ......but maybe they did. My guess is likely a Sony SQ one as plenty of Columbia artists went quad there , eg Chicago and Edgar Winter.

As for me I want to pick up Stones , Goats Head Soup (Village Recorders) , and perhaps, just perhaps the "sweetening" they sought from Baker Bigsby might be an encode. Stranger things have happened.
And with the Stones it's a case where the band has much more say on how they regard a quad format regardless of WEA 's CD-4 push.
Other WEA artists might not have that luxury.
 

fizzywiggs41

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If only they’d get them out, I’m not gettin’ any younger; but just for kicks ran JOE’S GARAGE through the SMv2 last night and I was in crew slut, Telefunken U47 cyborg heaven for a while😋
I remember reading some note years back from someone in the know that addressed the question as to wheter or not there were other quad titles in the vaults of record companies and his reply was something like.... there were and many at that .
At the time I was somewhat skeptical of that statement but after perusing the happenings in quad as per Billboard in 73/74 ,I'm very much inclined to believe there are.......many..... many unknown by us anyway.


Also worth noting that The Grateful Dead presented quad concerts and had one of the most advanced P.A. systems for live concerts. (BB NOV 02 74. PG 44 and 52)
incredible tidbits on live quad presentation for The Dead's performances.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Thanks for sharing such a great interview. Never heard of Baker Bigsby, but will look for his work moving forward.
He was quite the quad engineer btw.

Mixing and encoding (QS) titles such as the many on Impulse Records as well as the blues labels ( Bluesway , ABC Dunhill-)-BB KING , JOHN LEE HOOKER along with the quad producer ED Michel.
Most, but not all they did was out of Village Recorders , L.A.
 

J. PUPSTER

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I remember reading some note years back from someone in the know that addressed the question as to wheter or not there were other quad titles in the vaults of record companies and his reply was something like.... there were and many at that .
At the time I was somewhat skeptical of that statement but after perusing the happenings in quad as per Billboard in 73/74 ,I'm very much inclined to believe there are.......many..... many unknown by us anyway.


Also worth noting that The Grateful Dead presented quad concerts and had one of the most advanced P.A. systems for live concerts. (BB NOV 02 74. PG 44 and 52)
incredible tidbits on live quad presentation for The Dead's performances.
Seems like I remember reading somewhere also (maybe Guitar Player mag.) years ago an interview with Dweezil, mentioning many Quad tapes were recorded. Various thoughts arise as in: Does the Zappa estate want to play in that area, as Frank was very hands on and knew what he wanted? Maybe the tapes are not in good condition. Did the family sell the rights to some of his unreleased music? It doesn't seem like the estate has released that much new material lately; and there has to be mountains of material still untapped -AFAIK.
 

jimfisheye

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Also worth noting that The Grateful Dead presented quad concerts and had one of the most advanced P.A. systems for live concerts. (BB NOV 02 74. PG 44 and 52)
incredible tidbits on live quad presentation for The Dead's performances.
They were weirdly in parallel with Floyd in PA innovation. Allen & Heath came out of that on their end.
Ground zero for live surround concerts from 1967 to the end. They were very aggressive with sound in motion during the 'early years' especially. They had joystick panners and could fly any input around the venue. Rick had his own joystick sitting on one of his keyboards. You see him working it in a few old videos.

Documentation of this is poor unfortunately. They didn't record anything. The filmed festival shows were a mono mix from the film crew mics on stage. (A technique that made it possible to actually capture most bands whereas a board recording back then would not have been a good option. Unfortunately the polar opposite for Floyd with their advanced system and engineers. All lost.) There are a handful of shows with multiple audience recordings with tapers in strategic enough locations relative to each other to capture some of the surround motion in the mix between them. You can simply (well, maybe not "simply") sync up multiple analog sources and get them phase locked with the lossless veri-speed software nowadays and reconstruct a few of these. Most of it is lost to time though. A lot of Floyd fans don't even really realize what they had going on back then with this.
 

bmoura

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Well Brian, the Universal fire demonstrates why the artists should own their own and properly store them.
It all depends on what the artist can negotiate.
If they are powerful enough, getting ownership of their masters is possible. Where they are stored requires further negotiations. :)
 

fizzywiggs41

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Seems like I remember reading somewhere also (maybe Guitar Player mag.) years ago an interview with Dweezil, mentioning many Quad tapes were recorded. Various thoughts arise as in: Does the Zappa estate want to play in that area, as Frank was very hands on and knew what he wanted? Maybe the tapes are not in good condition. Did the family sell the rights to some of his unreleased music? It doesn't seem like the estate has released that much new material lately; and there has to be mountains of material still untapped -AFAIK.

According to an article in Billboard mag. Re: Jan 12,74 pgs 39plus,54.......ALL of Frank's live concerts were being recorded in quad by his discreetness himself. (Albeit mostly ambience in the rears)

Gotta be reams of live quad tapes in the FZ Vault , which could and should be enhanced for the rear discreet , and released for his many quadrofans. (Me :))
 

PodCat

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Janis Ian herself told me at a ‘94 concert that she owns her masters, and that only the CD’s issued by her company came from the stereo masters (she referred to the only CBS release of the time — a compilation — as “illegal”). I don’t remember asking about the quad tapes but maybe she owns those too.

Perhaps I should call her up ...
 

Quadwreck

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Janis Ian herself told me at a ‘94 concert that she owns her masters, and that only the CD’s issued by her company came from the stereo masters (she referred to the only CBS release of the time — a compilation — as “illegal”). I don’t remember asking about the quad tapes but maybe she owns those too.

Perhaps I should call her up ...
I think she's on Facebook or Instagram, she's been quite approachable on line.
 

artwwweb

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October 2019 Record Collector mag (UK) has in interview with Derek Varnals, the Decca engineer. (Listed here for his work on The Moody Blues.) Tantalisingly, they mention that he was responsible for "remixing over 40 albums for quadraphonic sound" 😲. Sadly, no other quaddy info is given o_O.
 
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