Abbey Road Disc Problem

[4-earredwonder]

I guess, SHM is "supposed" to be more about the clarity of the coating used; but just did a search on-line and didn't really find much about other formats other than CDs & SACDs. Just wondering if it also may help with the disc rot issue; maybe lesser plastics start to get hazy and blocks the light transmission of the lasers. And could it be applied to the Blu-ray discs; just sort of thinking out loud. Probably could use its own thread to discuss it further.

With ALL the hoopla about Blu Spec and SHM a lot of us have come to the conclusion that it's the mastering that counts and as we all know [or should] the Japanese have usually been at the forefront of carefully mastered/produced digital/vinyl media.

And whether HDCD CDs actually did produce the equivalent of 20 bit still remains a mystery as my pre/pro still showed 16/44.1 as the actual codec [NEVER 20 bit].

 

[HomerJAU]

I ripped the stereo, the DTS HD 5.1 and the Dolby TrueHD 7.1. But is the Atmos info embedded in the ripped Dolby TrueHD 7.1? I've heard that it is not and the Atmos can only be accessed by playing the disc. True? ...

False. The TrueHD +Atmos stream can be played back via HDMI Passthrough from an MKV or MKA file to an AVR with Atmos decoder.

MakeMKV does not show TrueHD + Atmos streams as Atmos. It only shows these streams as TrueHD 7.1

EDIT: MediaInfo (free) shows correct stream info for any file format. Also, Music Media Helper will show Atmos streams correctly if you use that to split into individual song files or create a CUE from the MakeMKV output.

 

[DuncanS]

With ALL the hoopla about Blu Spec and SHM a lot of us have come to the conclusion that it's the mastering that counts and as we all know [or should] the Japanese have usually been at the forefront of carefully mastered/produced digital/vinyl media.

Yep, clever marketing though. My Japanese plain old vanilla CDs sound better than their UK equivalents, good Mastering rules.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

With ALL the hoopla about Blu Spec and SHM a lot of us have come to the conclusion that it's the mastering that counts and as we all know [or should] the Japanese have usually been at the forefront of carefully mastered/produced digital/vinyl media.

That's how I view it; but also think I remember Mark saying his SHM discs seemed thicker, I can use a micrometer and check that out on my discs, and see for sure.

 

[4-earredwonder]

That's how I view it; but also think I remember Mark saying his SHM discs seemed thicker, I can use a micrometer and check that out on my discs, and see for sure.

I anticipate a FULL authoritative report, Pupster : The PUPSTER PAPERS?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I anticipate a FULL authoritative report, Pupster : The PUPSTER PAPERS?

Fairly inconclusive, I'd say:

-A few older RBCDs from the 80's measured from .0450" to .0480"
- The Japanese AJA SHM-SACD is .0485"
- The D-V SACD of MFSB is .0498" (the thickest - interesting )
- The Yes Fragile BD 2015 is.0452"
- The Abbey Road BD is .0478"

I would imagine it has to do more with the character of the materials and the strict adherence to pressing standards that will determine their fate.

 

[wavelength]

The copy I just got is the EU pressing IFPI 9752 by Optimal Media. It loads and plays fine. It was a resale so I don't know what I could do about it with the manufacturer if it pups out at some point.

For defective BR disc replacement send an email to Janice at Universal and she will replace it with a tested disc. [email protected]

 

[4-earredwonder]

Fairly inconclusive, I'd say:

-A few older RBCDs from the 80's measured from .0450" to .0480"
- The Japanese AJA SHM-SACD is .0485"
- The D-V SACD of MFSB is .0498" (the thickest - interesting )
- The Yes Fragile BD 2015 is.0452"
- The Abbey Road BD is .0478"

I would imagine it has to do more with the character of the materials and the strict adherence to pressing standards that will determine their fate.

I do recall, Pupster, when I was posting on the old SA~CD.net that when I took possession of my first SHM~SACD [the Who's Next] which cost me $60 + p/h, I attempted to apply my disc treatments and it cracked like an eggshell...something which has NEVER happened since with the literally thousands of other discs ...whether plain CDs, DVDs, SACDs and Blu ray discs I've treated. I cautioned other posters NOT to even attempt to clean those SHM~SACDs and one poster even reported one of his SHM~SACD discs shattered within the disc case from dropping it. Which led me to believe that those SHM~SACDs were 'brittle' even though actual blank DVDs are utilized to manufacture them.......Hmmmm!

BTW, have you tried measuring the girth of Dualdiscs? Just curious.

 

[markshan]

Can someone give me the contact info for faulty discs? Thanks.

Edit: Nevermind. I see the answer two posts up. Thanks.

 

[MrSmithers]

False. The TrueHD +Atmos stream can be played back via HDMI Passthrough from an MKV or MKA file to an AVR with Atmos decoder.

MakeMKV does not show TrueHD + Atmos streams as Atmos. It only shows these streams as TrueHD 7.1

EDIT: MediaInfo (free) shows correct stream info for any file format. Also, Music Media Helper will show Atmos streams correctly if you use that to split into individual song files or create a CUE from the MakeMKV output.

Hey Garry,

Have you successfully managed to play a ripped Atmos layer on Abbey Road? My disc plays ok - but if I try to play a ripped Atmos MKV file or back up copy, it‘s very jittery and then crashes out after a couple of seconds? The DTS-HD MA 5.1 layer from the back up plays fine. And the actual disc works with Atmos.

I thought it might be to do with BD+ encryption rather then a faulty disc?

 

[HomerJAU]

@MrSmithers: The Abbey Road Atmos issue is a known problem for just about all software based players on many hardware platforms (Kodi, JRiver, VLC, Foobar on Windows, Linux etc). It seems the release has a very high bitrate with its peak rate more than double ‘normal’ Atmos releases.

I‘m not sure why the errors occur (possibly HDMI cache) or why this 48/24 mix has such a huge bitrate (16,000kbps Max) but it makes me wonder if the Atmos mix is totally independent from the TrueHD 7.1 mix, since it’s double the normal Atmos bitrate.

 

[MrSmithers]

@MrSmithers: The Abbey Road Atmos issue is a known problem for just about all software based players on many hardware platforms (Kodi, JRiver, VLC, Foobar on Windows, Linux etc). It seems the release has a very high bitrate with its peak rate more than double ‘normal’ Atmos releases.

I‘m not sure why the errors occur (possibly HDMI cache) or why this 48/24 mix has such a huge bitrate (16,000kbps Max) but it makes me wonder if the Atmos mix is totally independent from the TrueHD 7.1 mix, since it’s double the normal Atmos bitrate.

Ok thanks, cheers for the info... At least I know my backup copy is good then...

And it might be possible to fix the bitrate problem further down the line...

 

[HomerJAU]

The Kodi developers are aware of the problem. Both Kodi and VLC use the same core audio library so it’s probably a fix needed in that. It’s possible some other software players are also using that same library.

 

[ar surround]

False. The TrueHD +Atmos stream can be played back via HDMI Passthrough from an MKV or MKA file to an AVR with Atmos decoder.

MakeMKV does not show TrueHD + Atmos streams as Atmos. It only shows these streams as TrueHD 7.1

EDIT: MediaInfo (free) shows correct stream info for any file format. Also, Music Media Helper will show Atmos streams correctly if you use that to split into individual song files or create a CUE from the MakeMKV output.

Thanks. So then the next question is: Will the TrueHD 7.1 stream that I extracted as FLAC from the MKV file using DVD AudioExtractor play back as Atmos via HDMI and an Atmos decoder?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Thanks. So then the next question is: Will the TrueHD 7.1 stream that I extracted as FLAC from the MKV file using DVD AudioExtractor play back as Atmos via HDMI and an Atmos decoder?

I was also interested in this and learned the answer a while back when I asked. No. FLAC will not trigger the Atmos decoder since the conversion to FLAC removes the Atmos metadata that the decoder uses.

 

[Circular Vibes]

For defective BR disc replacement send an email to Janice at Universal and she will replace it with a tested disc. [email protected]

Thank you for this. My Abbey Road is fine but I had an issue with an earlier title and have emailed.

I have received an email response to my inquiry. I am somewhat hopeful. Here is my post in the relevant thread. Response

 

[HomerJAU]

The TrueHD +Atmos stream can be played back via HDMI Passthrough from an MKV or MKA file to an AVR with Atmos decoder.

I will clarify myself: The TrueHD + Dolby Atmos stream can ONLY be played back as ATMOS via HDMI Passthrough from a file containing a copy of the stream such as M2TS, MKV or MKA to an AVR with an Atmos decoder. Any conversion of the stream to PCM including FLAC will lose the object data.

FLAC is limited to 8 channels, Atmos on BD has 16 objects. There’s not a 1:1 mapping object to channel. When you create a FLAC from Atmos you get the TrueHD 7.1 core layer without any Atmos information.

This is mentioned in the Dolby Atmos FAQ.

 

[HomerJAU]

@MrSmithers: The Abbey Road Atmos issue is a known problem for just about all software based players on many hardware platforms (Kodi, JRiver, VLC, Foobar on Windows, Linux etc). It seems the release has a very high bitrate with its peak rate more than double ‘normal’ Atmos releases...

Update on this issue: Apparently there's two issues based on Kodi developer feedback: First- a Kodi memory buffer overrun. Second - the ffmpeg player library used by Kodi. Both are being fixed but not sure when these will be available in a future Kodi release.

Since part of the problem is in ffmpeg, this will affect many software players as many use ffmpeg for playback.

If you are using Kodi on Windows you could configure and use another audio player in Kodi by setting up an external player. If anyone wants to know how to do this let me know and I'll post info. A similar solution for MAC. I don't know of any external audio players for Linux/LibreElec...

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Here’s some reasons for disc rot per Wikipedia.
Disc rot is the tendency of CD or DVDor other optical discs to become unreadable because of physical or chemical deterioration. The causes include oxidation of the reflective layer, physical scuffing and abrasion of disc, reactions with contaminants, ultra-violet light damage, and de-bonding of the adhesive used to adhere the layers of the disc together.

Since most of these AR discs are new; I’m leaning towards that last example of de-bonding due to inferior adhesive or the application thereof, as a likely reason for early failure.

 

[Dyanez]

Here’s some reasons for disc rot per Wikipedia.
Disc rot is the tendency of CD or DVDor other optical discs to become unreadable because of physical or chemical deterioration. The causes include oxidation of the reflective layer, physical scuffing and abrasion of disc, reactions with contaminants, ultra-violet light damage, and de-bonding of the adhesive used to adhere the layers of the disc together.

Since most of these AR discs are new; I’m leaning towards that last example of de-bonding due to inferior adhesive or the application thereof, as a likely reason for early failure.

it’s the Laserdisc story all over again!