Adjusting rear or surround speakers louder than the fronts

[quicksrt]

Anyone else find that they enjoy the surround speaker content being a little louder than the front speakers?

I am currently only doing 5.1 and 4.0 and enjoying it very much. But I keep finding myself turning the fronts down by 3db and the back chans up by 3db which is a considerable difference. I feel that it gives me more of an extreme difference in the listening experience from the standard stereo mix. I like my surround playback a little on the radical side I guess.

As a mater of fact the AVR I choose to use I bought for sound quality first, but the other thing I looked for was the ability to change and adjust speaker levels without using a tv monitor, but just the front panel and remote.

The other thing I often do with 5.1 material is shut the center speaker off completely. I don't do this on a first listen, but after I know that surround mix, I am often fine with center off and surround up.

 

[NYMo]

Yeah....I set all my channels as I choose...every analog output goes to its own pre-amp and amp. That way I can mix everything myself.
I always have the rears pretty loud..my rule of thumb being that I can hear the drums in the front over the rears ..a nice balance. I don't use a sub as I have large studio monitors in the front and large floor standers in the rear.
I've gone back to using a centre again as I found that switching the centre channel out caused the front L/R to drop by 6 db ....and I like my music very loud !

 

[ar surround]

All the more power to you. It's your system, so you listen to it anyway you want. And if your mood changes, you can change the volume levels again. Sometimes I'll even listen to just the fronts or the rears to more clearly digest what the engineer is doing with the mix. On a number of quads, I've even listened to just one channel at times. Examples:

The left rear on Beginnings to hear the acoustic guitar isolated.
The right rear on Mississippi Queen to hear the piano isolated.
One speaker at a time on Evil Ways to hear the various voices isolated.

 

[quicksrt]

Center speaker, and both Surrounds only is an interesting way as well, I played the Doors "LA Woman" that way not long ago.

The content in the surrounds is often the more subtle content, and often very subdued in the stereo mix of the album. "Avalon" is a really strange one to listen to with Surrounds only on. Interesting guitar parts, just bits of accents and backing vocals and tons of isolated reverb from other parts in the front channels.

 

[sjcorne]

"Avalon" is a really strange one to listen to with Surrounds only on. Interesting guitar parts, just bits of accents and backing vocals and tons of isolated reverb from other parts in the front channels.

That'd be the famous stairwell at the Power Station, miked up as an impromptu reverb chamber. It appears on a number of other classic '80s productions mixed there such as Bryan Adams' Reckless and Springsteen's Born In The USA.

 

[Doug G.]

It's a good way o find out exactly what they put in the back.

Doug

 

[par4ken]

With modern mixes I find it useful to raise the rear levels a bit. Too much though doesn't always sound right. I remember an article about Dolby surround where Jim Fosgate said that you shouldn't be aware of the rear channels until you shut them off. That might be true with modern ambient style mixes but most of us want immersive sound!

With my prefered speaker arrangement (rears more off to the sides) you sometimes have to reduce the rear level a bit.

Setting balance is IMHO a pain with modern AVRs. The old quad equipment is best. The joystick was a great invention, while for very precise balance settings you really need separate left to right controls (one for front and another for rear) as well as one for front to rear the joystick actually works very slick for more simple/basic front to back and/or left to right control. It looks very cool as well!

 

[himey]

I tweak every album to my preference.

 

[ar surround]

I tweak every album to my preference.

Sometimes I find that the tweeks vary from song to song on certain albums. I tweeked the rears on Nights In White Satin by +9dB (and the Lament by +7dB.) The "as mastered" rears are totally anemic. Here are the tweeked waveforms:

 

[quicksrt]

With modern mixes I find it useful to raise the rear levels a bit. Too much though doesn't always sound right. I remember an article about Dolby surround where Jim Fosgate said that you shouldn't be aware of the rear channels until you shut them off. That might be true with modern ambient style mixes but most of us want immersive sound!

With my prefered speaker arrangement (rears more off to the sides) you sometimes have to reduce the rear level a bit.

Setting balance is IMHO a pain with modern AVRs. The old quad equipment is best. The joystick was a great invention, while for very precise balance settings you really need separate left to right controls (one for front and another for rear) as well as one for front to rear the joystick actually works very slick for more simple/basic front to back and/or left to right control. It looks very cool as well!

A joystick on a remote control unit would be pretty exciting. But today with having the center channel and sub to deal with, it's less simple times I guess.

But I'm of the opinion that with rears tipped up in level things do not sound normal, mix is often off balanced, but if I know the album well already, I'm good with a totally off-balance mix with the accents and spices all enhanced. Just for fun.

 

[timothyemerson]

I adjust channel volumes depending on what I'm listening to, to get about the same experience once the sounds reach my brain.

1. For movies, surrounds are usually +5dB
2. For non-quad surround audio listening, surrounds are usually -4dB
3. For quad surround audio listening, surrounds are usually -6dB
4. Some movies get a +2db to +5dB centre channel increase

 

[J. PUPSTER]

A joystick on a remote control unit would be pretty exciting. But today with have the center channel and sub to deal with, it's less simple times I guess.

But I'm of the opinion that with rears tipped up in level things do not sound normal, mix is often off balanced, but if I know the album well already, I'm good with a totally off-balance mix with the accents and spices all enhanced. Just for fun.

It's "A Question Of Balance" for sure. I believe each person's speakers & room layout/acoustics also have a big influence on the perceived balance.

 

[doctors11]

How are you guys adjusting the balance on a modern receiver? I have a Marantz NR1403 and if I go into options, audio, all I can adjust is center channel and subwoofer. I'd love to be able to raise or lower the surrounds on the fly.

 

[timothyemerson]

How are you guys adjusting the balance on a modern receiver? I have a Marantz NR1403 and if I go into options, audio, all I can adjust is center channel and subwoofer. I'd love to be able to raise or lower the surrounds on the fly.

I have a Marantz SR7013 and hit the Option button on the remote to get into the channel level adjust function. The audio needs to be playing in order to make the adjustment though.

For example, if I want to adjust my surround levels, surround audio needs to be playing. If I pause whatever I'm watching/listening to first, only the front channels are adjustable. Let me know if that don't make no sense and I'll try and explain it more betterer.

 

[doctors11]

I have a Marantz SR7013 and hit the Option button on the remote to get into the channel level adjust function. The audio needs to be playing in order to make the adjustment though.

For example, if I want to adjust my surround levels, surround audio needs to be playing. If I pause whatever I'm watching/listening to first, only the front channels are adjustable. Let me know if that don't make no sense and I'll try and explain it more betterer.

Thanks. I've tried that but the only options I get for adjusting volume in the audio drop down menu is the center and sub. Maybe that's all my model will do.

 

[timothyemerson]

Thanks. I've tried that but the only options I get for adjusting volume in the audio drop down menu is the center and sub. Maybe that's all my model will do.

Hmmm, yeah possibly. I'm not familiar with older models so can't offer anything other than changing levels in the set-up menu which I'm guessing you've already done.

 

[doctors11]

Hmmm, yeah possibly. I'm not familiar with older models so can't offer anything other than changing levels in the set-up menu which I'm guessing you've already done.

I have tried that but it's a PITA. And it affects everything. And it can't be done on the fly. Do the new 3800/4800 Denon's and the new Cinema 50/40 from Marantz allow for this type of adjustment? I tried to find out but so far no luck.

 

[timothyemerson]

I have tried that but it's a PITA. And it affects everything. And it can't be done on the fly. Do the new 3800/4800 Denon's and the new Cinema 50/40 from Marantz allow for this type of adjustment? I tried to find out but so far no luck.

I know what you mean. When I first got my Marantz, that's how I adjusted levels which was definitely a pain and way less convenient than my previous Yamaha. I only discovered the Option button had the Channel Level Adjust function after a while of just pressing buttons and seeing what they did. Not the sort of thing they tend to advertise for some reason even though it's a major bonus. I guess they think everyone just knows it already or doesn't care enough. Be handy if manufacturers did a big schematic layout of menu structure so you could browse around a 1-page PDF to see where everything was.

I don't know if the new models can do it on the fly or not.

 

[ar surround]

I have a Marantz SR7013 and hit the Option button on the remote to get into the channel level adjust function. The audio needs to be playing in order to make the adjustment though.

For example, if I want to adjust my surround levels, surround audio needs to be playing. If I pause whatever I'm watching/listening to first, only the front channels are adjustable. Let me know if that don't make no sense and I'll try and explain it more betterer.

That Marantz (and probably Denon) is a PITA because there is no "fader" control. You have to adjust each channel separately for front to back adjustments. That is stupid.

 

[doctors11]

Do the new Yamaha Aventage receivers allow the on the fly adjustments?