Alan Parsons possible.....

[Bender]

I live in Carpinteria, Ca.

Today our little town had a special fundraiser for our local theatre by showing the Ed Sullivan broadcast of The Beatles on the 50th anniversary. Before the film, Alan Parsons, a local neighbor, did a talk about his experiences. He mentioned that he was planning on releasing a new single and that it would be released in high definition, not just mp3. I asked him if he considered doing that or other items in multi-channel. He replied that he is still a big proponent of surround music and understanding the industry, he is hoping there would be a way for 5.1 downloads. He knew it might take a couple of hours to download, but agreed it would be worth it. He then mentioned a few Alan Parsons Project albums he could see doing surround mixes for and making them available. I was hoping to chat with him later, but never got another chance.

So, couldn't HD tracks experiment with some 5.1 offerings???

There is hope.

 

[elroy]

Sounds like a really nice event your town had!

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

I live in Carpinteria, Ca.

Today our little town had a special fundraiser for our local theatre by showing the Ed Sullivan broadcast of The Beatles on the 50th anniversary. Before the film, Alan Parsons, a local neighbor, did a talk about his experiences. He mentioned that he was planning on releasing a new single and that it would be released in high definition, not just mp3. I asked him if he considered doing that or other items in multi-channel. He replied that he is still a big proponent of surround music and understanding the industry, he is hoping there would be a way for 5.1 downloads. He knew it might take a couple of hours to download, but agreed it would be worth it. He then mentioned a few Alan Parsons Project albums he could see doing surround mixes for and making them available. I was hoping to chat with him later, but never got another chance.

So, couldn't HD tracks experiment with some 5.1 offerings???

There is hope.

Glad you had the face time with AP!

Though his reply sounds like the same old safe & diplomatic response.

As far as HDTracks and 5.1. I don't think so. HDTracks is all about marketing "hidef" and cashing in on people's ignorance of digital. They are not a purveyor of high fidelity music, or lets say that is not their primary motivation... Though I always stay hopeful for any way to promote hifi 5.1.

 

[quadtrade]

just got word nothing is going on in that direction at the moment

 

[knifeman]

I could never understand why Alan Parsons wasn't more involved in the evolution of surround sound recording. I was disappointed in the latest re-issue of I Robot being in only the CD format. If ever there was a track tailor made for 5.1, it's the title cut from this album. As far as hi-resolution downloads, count me out. I want physical product; the artwork, period-specific extra tracks, a good essay, etc......

 

[alk3997]

Have you heard "On Air" by Alan Parsons? It was mixed only for DTS-CD in 5.1-channel sound. All of the songs are about flight in some way. Great sounding album and showed AP was ahead of his time with surround. "On Air" is from 1996 and the cover indicates it is a 44.1/20-bit DTS-CD.

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

I could never understand why Alan Parsons wasn't more involved in the evolution of surround sound recording. I was disappointed in the latest re-issue of I Robot being in only the CD format. If ever there was a track tailor made for 5.1, it's the title cut from this album. As far as hi-resolution downloads, count me out. I want physical product; the artwork, period-specific extra tracks, a good essay, etc......

Hi knifeman,

Alan has tried in the past. In 1996 when DTS came out, he invested his personal $$$ in releasing On Air as a double CD, (the 2nd disc was multimedia) I 'm not sure if he personally invested in the cost of producing the DTS 5.1 version of On Air. I saw the On Air tour and he really promoted 5.1, but like Alan said then: "people were going to need to buy more hardware"(for the DTS decoding, which was kinda expensive and required a new receiver) So I think he got burned out and he is waiting for a stronger 5.1 market before he releases his classic stuff in 5.1 (I think he has some 5.1 mixes ready...) This is a shame because if he released his classic stuff in 5.1 that would sure help create a better market!

I agree with you about digital downloads. It is a way for artists/record companies to get rich very fast, but they are missing the point. Most of us still want some physical product! Personally I think that is a big part of the LP record revival. People want a physical experience as well. I think the recent Transatlantic deluxe release of a full size album with art, and the CDs tucked in, is perfect for all music! Bring back the folded posters!

@alk3997: I have On Air in 5.1. It is great I say! I also saw that tour in a small theatre, it was spectacular to hear.

 

[IMachine]

Hi knifeman,

Alan has tried in the past. In 1996 when DTS came out, he invested his personal $$$ in releasing On Air as a double CD, (the 2nd disc was multimedia) I 'm not sure if he personally invested in the cost of producing the DTS 5.1 version of On Air. I saw the On Air tour and he really promoted 5.1, but like Alan said then: "people were going to need to buy more hardware"(for the DTS decoding, which was kinda expensive and required a new receiver) So I think he got burned out and he is waiting for a stronger 5.1 market before he releases his classic stuff in 5.1 (I think he has some 5.1 mixes ready...) This is a shame because if he released his classic stuff in 5.1 that would sure help create a better market!

I agree with you about digital downloads. It is a way for artists/record companies to get rich very fast, but they are missing the point. Most of us still want some physical product! Personally I think that is a big part of the LP record revival. People want a physical experience as well. I think the recent Transatlantic deluxe release of a full size album with art, and the CDs tucked in, is perfect for all music! Bring back the folded posters!

@alk3997: I have On Air in 5.1. It is great I say! I also saw that tour in a small theatre, it was spectacular to hear.

I agree with everything, but would say.....better a downloadable 5.1 mix than nothing!

 

[alk3997]

Hi knifeman,

...

@alk3997: I have On Air in 5.1. It is great I say! I also saw that tour in a small theatre, it was spectacular to hear.

I would have liked to have heard/seen that tour!

After looking at the "On Air" disc last night, I'm still trying to remember what type of DTS decoder could decode at 44.1-kHz with 20-bit? Unless they were just trying to say it was recorded in 20-bit. 96/24 came out a few years later but the sampling rate required a DVD. Maybe it's an HDCD for DTS?

 

[knifeman]

Have you heard "On Air" by Alan Parsons? It was mixed only for DTS-CD in 5.1-channel sound. All of the songs are about flight in some way. Great sounding album and showed AP was ahead of his time with surround. "On Air" is from 1996 and the cover indicates it is a 44.1/20-bit DTS-CD.

I own the "On Air" title and agree with you on the sound quality; very pristine. Typical Alan Parsons. But now you guys have me confused. My copy has a CD-Rom with it. I never did anything with it because when I originally bought this, I didn't own a computer. So I have no idea what's on it, but I'm fairly certain a 5.1 mix isn't. And I don't see any mention of surround on the cover. It's your mention of the 44.1/20 bit DTS-CD that has me baffled. The CD format is 16-bit, is it not? I was under the impression that a CD does not have enough storage capacity to hold a 5.1 mix. Anyway, is it possible this title was re-issued and what I own is a first generation release?

 

[alk3997]

The DTS format (the same format that is used on DVDs) is a 5.1-channel format. It actually started on CDs at a 44.1-kHz sample rate, the standard for CDs. Both channels of the CD are replaced by an encoded DTS signal in 5.1. In the mid to late 1990s there were a reasonable number of these released by DTS. Some were great (I personally think The Globe Sessions and On Air were two of the best) and some were just quad transfers with no real corrections (Venus and Mars).

To answer your question, yes CDs are two channel formats (although from day one there was an option built into the spec so that a CD could hold a quad program - it was never used). But DTS replaced the audio on the CD with DTS data. That DTS-CD plays through the digital audio output of a CD or DVD player and is converted by an AVR when the DTS signal is recognized. Having made quite a few of these DTS-CD discs (I still do since they will play on our whole home system) the max time is the same as a regular CD.

Since it is data, the DTS-CD could contain any bit-level it wants but the higher the bit level, the shorter the disc time. Now sampling frequency can't change (or at least it would have had to have been an integer multiplier of 44.1-kHz) since a CD player only outputs at 44.1-kHz.

My confusion was that I didn't remember any decoders for a 20-bit DTS-CD. As far as I can tell my DENON is decoding a 16-bit signal.

The other variation in the DTS-CD world was the 6.1-channel DTS-CD. That was "cool" since it really had a discrete mono back center surround channel encoded with the typical 5.1-channels. Unfortunately, there wasn't too much music that really required a mono back surround channel. I never found a DTS-CD ES encoder (plenty of them for DVDs). Remarkably my newer DENON will still pick-up the DTS-CD ES signal and output 6.1-channels. So that isn't a dead format, but a 20-bit DTS-CD may be.

A DTS-CD was not a CD-ROM. Why do you think your copy is?

 

[LizardKing]

There are subtle differences between DTS on DTS CDs and DVDs.

DTS CDs are 44.1 kHz with a bit rate of 1,411.2 kbit/s whereas for DTS on DVD is (usually) 48kHz with a bit rate up to 1509.75 kbit/s.

 

[JonUrban]

I own the "On Air" title and agree with you on the sound quality; very pristine. Typical Alan Parsons. But now you guys have me confused. My copy has a CD-Rom with it. I never did anything with it because when I originally bought this, I didn't own a computer. So I have no idea what's on it, but I'm fairly certain a 5.1 mix isn't. And I don't see any mention of surround on the cover. It's your mention of the 44.1/20 bit DTS-CD that has me baffled. The CD format is 16-bit, is it not? I was under the impression that a CD does not have enough storage capacity to hold a 5.1 mix. Anyway, is it possible this title was re-issued and what I own is a first generation release?

I have that "limited edition" version of the CD with the CD-ROM included. As I recall, it's just some graphic images and stuff. I haven't looked at it in years. It does not have the 5.1 mix on it, of that I am sure. I supposed I should dig it out and refresh my memory on it.

 

[Quad Linda]

As most QQ'ers know, there were dozens of surround DTS-CD's released by Miller Nevada under license from a variety of record labels. Telarc also had a number of titles out before they plunged into SACD.

Original pressing in CD size jewel box:


Later pressing in DVD-A style jewel box:

 

[knifeman]

The DTS format (the same format that is used on DVDs) is a 5.1-channel format. It actually started on CDs at a 44.1-kHz sample rate, the standard for CDs. Both channels of the CD are replaced by an encoded DTS signal in 5.1. In the mid to late 1990s there were a reasonable number of these released by DTS. Some were great (I personally think The Globe Sessions and On Air were two of the best) and some were just quad transfers with no real corrections (Venus and Mars).

To answer your question, yes CDs are two channel formats (although from day one there was an option built into the spec so that a CD could hold a quad program - it was never used). But DTS replaced the audio on the CD with DTS data. That DTS-CD plays through the digital audio output of a CD or DVD player and is converted by an AVR when the DTS signal is recognized. Having made quite a few of these DTS-CD discs (I still do since they will play on our whole home system) the max time is the same as a regular CD.

Since it is data, the DTS-CD could contain any bit-level it wants but the higher the bit level, the shorter the disc time. Now sampling frequency can't change (or at least it would have had to have been an integer multiplier of 44.1-kHz) since a CD player only outputs at 44.1-kHz.

My confusion was that I didn't remember any decoders for a 20-bit DTS-CD. As far as I can tell my DENON is decoding a 16-bit signal.

The other variation in the DTS-CD world was the 6.1-channel DTS-CD. That was "cool" since it really had a discrete mono back center surround channel encoded with the typical 5.1-channels. Unfortunately, there wasn't too much music that really required a mono back surround channel. I never found a DTS-CD ES encoder (plenty of them for DVDs). Remarkably my newer DENON will still pick-up the DTS-CD ES signal and output 6.1-channels. So that isn't a dead format, but a 20-bit DTS-CD may be.

A DTS-CD was not a CD-ROM. Why do you think your copy is?

Because it says CD-ROM on it.

 

[JonUrban]

It really IS a CD-ROM

Here's a scan of the back of the jewel box. Remember, this was included with a stereo CD, NOT THE DTS-CD.

I bought this because, at the time, I did not have a car that would play a DTS CD, and I liked the DTS CD so much, I wanted the music in the car. When I went to buy the CD, of course, I chose the version with the bonus disc!

 

[alk3997]

Because it says CD-ROM on it.

OK, I understand from Jon's response that there was an edition that had a CD-ROM in it along with a stereo CD. Mine did not. I have the standard DTS-CD in a CD jewel box. I believe I purchased it direct from the DTS website. Until a few minutes ago I didn't even realize there was a stereo version of "On Air" - learn something new every day.

Unfortunately without the DTS-CD, you don't have the 5.1-channel audio (obviously). It's worth trying to track down.

 

[alk3997]

Noticing the spelling of colours (or colors, according to the site spellchecker), could it be that this was a UK only release? 486DX brought back memories along with Windows 3.1!

BTW, does the spellchecker know if you use Queen's English or (the more correct ) Yankee English when checking the appends?

 

[Quad Linda]

The CD/CD-ROM which Jon depicted is a US release. It is a River North Records release. It harkens from Downers Grove, IL, a Chicago suburb where they grow on trees. :yikes

 

[alk3997]

I have to admit I either never knew about River North Records or have long forgotten. Do you know the history of how they got "On Air" CD-ROM?