• QuadraphonicQuad welcomes you and encourages your participation! Treat all members with respect. Please keep all discussions civil, even when you have a strong opinion on a particular topic.

    Do not offer for free, offer for sale, offer for trade, or request copies or files of copyrighted material - no matter how rare or unavailable to the public they might be. We do not condone the illegal sharing of music. There are many places on the internet where you can participate in such transactions, but QuadraphonicQuad is not one of them. We are here to encourage and support new multichannel releases from those companies that still provide them and as such the distribution of illegal copies of recordings is counter-productive to that effort. Any posts of this sort will be deleted without notification.

    Please try to avoid discussions that pit one format against another. Hint for new users: make liberal use of the search facilities here at QuadraphonicQuad. Our message base is an incredibly rich resource of detailed information on virtually all topics pertaining to surround-sound. You will be surprised at what you can find with a little digging!

Alison Krauss & Union Station Live SACD

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

JimHansonDC

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
22
Location
DC
I see this disc regularly used for $75-100 bucks and this one unopened for $345 is outrageous. The DVD of the same concert can be obtained for around $10. I haven't heard the SACD, but can it be that much better, or even as good as the 5.1 mix on the DVD. The DVD is a very ambience only in the surrounds mix, so is the SACD really worth it aside from the rarity?
Alison Kraus Ebay listing.jpg
 

J. PUPSTER

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
4,201
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
Yeah, that's just throwing it at a wall price to see if anyone bites. I bought the SACD years ago maybe for $30 but have considered just getting the DVD, because it is a good concert. I would think the SACD would sound a little better, but maybe not enough that most of us old farts can really tell anyway. I'd say just get the DVD if you don't already have it.
 

Fourplay

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
QQ Supporter
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
1,275
Location
Denver
Have not compared the mixes between DVD & SACD, but can verify that the rears are mostly if not all ambience and audience. Somewhere round these parts I posted a complaint years ago about how highly rated this was as a surround disc. I guess people just like the fidelity of the recording, and are not concerned with instrumental content in the rears. I think many discs on eBay are overpriced. This one sure is!
 

Kal Rubinson

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
1,839
Location
NYC/CT
I guess people just like the fidelity of the recording, and are not concerned with instrumental content in the rears.
Some of us are quite concerned that there not be instrumental content in the rears, especially from a live performance in which there was no such source. :rolleyes:
 

J. PUPSTER

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
4,201
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
The doors are always open for a lively discussion of “live” or “concert” mixing choices and how we prefer to hear them, over at this little hang out 🧁🍰🍩☕ (Free pastries if your nice!)
 

JimHansonDC

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
22
Location
DC
I agree a live recording should reflect the sound you get from being there in the hall. The DVD mix does have that in the surrounds, although somewhat faintly. But is doesn't use the center channel to do any voice or instrument isolation as a matter of fact the center is barely audible in either the DTS or Dolby mixes on my DVD. If someone with a copy of the SACD could comment about that on their mix I'd love to hear it. My DVD is closer to stereo than surround.
 

Kal Rubinson

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
1,839
Location
NYC/CT
The SACD opens with applause from the rear channels and the performers up front. IMHO, plenty of ambiance from the surrounds but there is no center channel.
 

JimHansonDC

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
22
Location
DC
The SACD opens with applause from the rear channels and the performers up front. IMHO, plenty of ambiance from the surrounds but there is no center channel.
Interesting. I wonder if they didn't have the multitracks or chose to just do an upmix style "surround". The level on the center channel DVD is so low I can't even hear it unless I solo that channel. Kinda disappointing for such a great concert. This one could really use a real remix.
 

bossfan

600 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
641
Location
Canada
Some of us are quite concerned that there not be instrumental content in the rears, especially from a live performance in which there was no such source. :rolleyes:
Don't tell Steven Wilson that. His latest concert Blu Ray from Royal Albert has more action in the rears than most album DVD audios or SACDs. It's brilliant and shows how this approach can work beautifully.
 

Kal Rubinson

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
1,839
Location
NYC/CT
Don't tell Steven Wilson that. His latest concert Blu Ray from Royal Albert has more action in the rears than most album DVD audios or SACDs. It's brilliant and shows how this approach can work beautifully.
Why would I? I am not aware of ever having heard any of his recordings.
 

JimHansonDC

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
22
Location
DC
Don't tell Steven Wilson that. His latest concert Blu Ray from Royal Albert has more action in the rears than most album DVD audios or SACDs. It's brilliant and shows how this approach can work beautifully.
He sure did, but he also skipped the center channel and the mix is basically a quad.1 It sounds brilliant as all his live recordings do but it's just odd that he didn't use the center. He usually sticks vocals there, often all by themselves.

I saw that show in Philly at the Fillmore & it drove me to write a piece about how awful most live shows are sonically at major venues. They just can't stop turning it up and have zero control over the bass.
How to fix bad concert sound
I much prefer a great recorded concert in my listening/watching room to all but a handful of venues. Wolf Trap here in DC is a pleasant one for most shows but even they have trouble with heavier rock mixes.
 

Fourplay

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
QQ Supporter
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
1,275
Location
Denver
Some of us are quite concerned that there not be instrumental content in the rears, especially from a live performance in which there was no such source. :rolleyes:
Far be it from me to criticize how you like to hear your music and surround. If you enjoy the disc, that is great!

That said, if you are really concerned about how the music is heard in the hall, perhaps there should be marginal acoustics and some yahoo telling his buddy what the meaning of the lyrics are during your favorite song from just over your left shoulder. I apologize for being slightly snarky (maybe not even slightly), but for me the realm of classical is better suited to an audience/ambience mix, since it more likely represents the concert experience. Since most of the shows I attend include artifacts I would never want in a home listening experience, I feel like the idea of reproducing the hall is out the window. Also, I suspect that any microphones designed to capture hall ambience are never located near the ears of any actual listener. So hall ambience is something of a contrivance in that regard.

If you are going to mix surround, put me in a stage mix. In other words, spread the instruments around the sound field so I can better hear what is being played. To me that is the attraction of surround sound. It is just my preference. That is what is cool about the AIX surround series. The listener can choose a "stage" or "audience" mix.

I hope not to offend. This is one geek's opinion!
 

Kal Rubinson

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
1,839
Location
NYC/CT
I hope not to offend. This is one geek's opinion!
No offense taken. As you point out, the issue is not about the most desirable or most correct way to record a performance but, rather, the nature of the event being recorded. I do not disagree with you but I choose differently.
 

kap'n krunch

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
6,386
Location
estados hundidos
As mentioned so many times before , everybody is different; hence, everybody HEARS differently and that is all standing on top of personal preferences.

I like my mixes to be in surround, as in (like Fourplay said) a STAGE mix..if you want reverb in the rears I think (i.e., my preference and opinion) that you could always create a rear buss in the console and create your own; nowadays with so many plug-ins, and even back then with a good old rack effect..Lexicon 480 , anyone?

Heck, I hadn't attended a Classical concert in FOREVER and I was floored to hear music from the upper rears-like a real life ATMOS mix- from the acoustics in the Ferenc Liszt hall in Budapest...yes, I know it was the reflection but it was really discrete!!!

Some might think that it's unorthodox to have a "stage" mix but I think these listeners are not well versed in either being part of a choir or an orchestra (guilty in both cases) which , once you experience it, you will always would like to recreate...
 

weekendtoy

400 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
496
Location
Northern MN
This one was recorded live straight to DSD, and is one of, if not, the finest live recordings I have.

As the OP hinted at, this disc is truly about the fidelity and to that end, is worth the price of admission.

Of course that's easy for me to say as I paid $25ish when it first came out. In 2019 dollars that would be $35. So $75 for an OPP disc isn't too much of a stretch.
 

bossfan

600 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
641
Location
Canada
He sure did, but he also skipped the center channel and the mix is basically a quad.1 It sounds brilliant as all his live recordings do but it's just odd that he didn't use the center. He usually sticks vocals there, often all by themselves.

I saw that show in Philly at the Fillmore & it drove me to write a piece about how awful most live shows are sonically at major venues. They just can't stop turning it up and have zero control over the bass.
How to fix bad concert sound
I much prefer a great recorded concert in my listening/watching room to all but a handful of venues. Wolf Trap here in DC is a pleasant one for most shows but even they have trouble with heavier rock mixes.
I've seen Steven Wilson a few times touring his recent albums in smallish venues with reportedly excellent sound, including Carnegie Hall in Toronto. Every time after every concert I swear I won't go to another. They have been way too loud. On two occasions I was sitting to one side about six to ten rows back from a massive speaker bank. Brutal. the last time I was square in the middle at the very back of the concert hall and on the second level It was better but still too loud. Steven later announced he was coming to my hometown and playing a tiny venue. I didn't even bother to buy tickets. The Blu Ray, on the other hand, is outstanding.
 

bmoura

Super Moderator
Staff member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Mar 2, 2003
Messages
9,468
Location
Redwood City, CA
This one was recorded live straight to DSD, and is one of, if not, the finest live recordings I have.

As the OP hinted at, this disc is truly about the fidelity and to that end, is worth the price of admission.

Of course that's easy for me to say as I paid $25ish when it first came out. In 2019 dollars that would be $35. So $75 for an OPP disc isn't too much of a stretch.
I like the Live Surround Sound SACD by Alison Krauss.
Not sure I would pay $345 for it though..... :)
 
2
Group builder
Top