Apple Music Surround question.

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fearandloath

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2023
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14
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I'm new to this forum and being older and attached to physical media, I'm new to the music streaming platform. Especially surround music. I have Amazon Music and like the ease and accessibility of it. But I was getting upset because I keep hearing of all these great surround and Atmos mixes being released on streaming with no physical release. I tried to listen to some Atmos mixes from Amazon on my bluetooth ready Denon receiver, but that's an effort in futility. I've given up on Amazon for surround music. Through another question on this forum I decided Apple is the way to go. But I am definitely a Hi-Fi guy so I have a few questions I would like answers to before making the investment. Here goes...

1) At what resolution are these Atmos mixes coming through via streaming? MP3 quality, Standard 44.1/16 or hopefully 24/96?

2) Are these actual Surround or Atmos mixes with discrete channnel placement or just something akin to what I can do using a normal CD and the surround processor on my receiver? Say Dolby Pro Logic. Also are these actual Atmos mixes and not the "Spatial Audio" that some releases on Amazon have. And can somebody please explain the difference. I read so many conflicting things and jargon about I'm not entirely sure.

3) It's says downloading is available. At what resolution would they download and could I transfer to a thumb drive to share with a friend?

4) I understand there are many factors that go into making a great mix but what would you say the general overall quality is of these releases?

As I said I'm an older guy attached to physical media but I am dying to hear some of these surround mixes. Any other info, hints or answers to questions I may have missed would certainly be appreciated.
 
The quality seems more about the bit rate coming thru the internet than an actual resolution. I wonder that it even varies on time of day/traffic on the internet?

They are definitely actual atmos and surround mixes though some are just from upmixes. But the majority are real. And just as with physical releases, some are great, some are mediocre and some are bad. The best of them are fantastic mixes limited only by the bit rate and/or the app's algorithm for compressing the file for transmission.

I guess you can download them but I've never tried it myself. Assume the same resolution as streaming. No you can't share with someone else via a thumb drive. You need the apple app to play them.

Again, various titles range from fantastic mixes to why did they bother. But all in all, there are a lot of mixes that you will find nowhere else.

Maybe others can give their opinions or correct anything I might have wrong.

K
 
I'm new to this forum and being older and attached to physical media, I'm new to the music streaming platform. Especially surround music. I have Amazon Music and like the ease and accessibility of it. But I was getting upset because I keep hearing of all these great surround and Atmos mixes being released on streaming with no physical release. I tried to listen to some Atmos mixes from Amazon on my bluetooth ready Denon receiver, but that's an effort in futility. I've given up on Amazon for surround music. Through another question on this forum I decided Apple is the way to go. But I am definitely a Hi-Fi guy so I have a few questions I would like answers to before making the investment. Here goes...

1) At what resolution are these Atmos mixes coming through via streaming? MP3 quality, Standard 44.1/16 or hopefully 24/96?

2) Are these actual Surround or Atmos mixes with discrete channnel placement or just something akin to what I can do using a normal CD and the surround processor on my receiver? Say Dolby Pro Logic. Also are these actual Atmos mixes and not the "Spatial Audio" that some releases on Amazon have. And can somebody please explain the difference. I read so many conflicting things and jargon about I'm not entirely sure.

3) It's says downloading is available. At what resolution would they download and could I transfer to a thumb drive to share with a friend?

4) I understand there are many factors that go into making a great mix but what would you say the general overall quality is of these releases?

As I said I'm an older guy attached to physical media but I am dying to hear some of these surround mixes. Any other info, hints or answers to questions I may have missed would certainly be appreciated.
Welcome to the forum. Your questions suggest that it might be good to assemble an "Atmos Streaming FAQ" similar to @HomerJAU's "Dolby Atmos FAQ." You can probably find answers to most of them if you search assiduously enough through existing threads in the Object-Based Surround section, but it won't necessarily be easy.

1) Apple, Tidal, and Amazon all seem to be streaming Atmos at the lowest allowable bitrate, 768kpbs. That actually seems to be adequate bandwidth for a lot of music, less so for others. There have been debates here over why and in which cases that's so, but there's general agreement that when there's also a disc (or high-res MKV download) available, the disc wins out. That said: plenty of streaming Atmos mixes sound brilliant.

2) That question is sort of a minefield. Atmos is an object-based system, so in principle it doesn't place things discretely according to speakers--although in practice it does (especially when it comes to the "bed" layer). Placement is a function of the number and location of speakers in your system, however. Atmos-for headphones and the like are a whole other contentious can o' worms; they're essentially a newer, more robust, descendant of older binaural / psychoacoustic / ambisonic technologies. "Spatial" is Apple's brand for all immersive audio on their platform, including Atmos and Atmos for headphones.

3) Most services allow you to download stereo, but not Atmos, tracks for offline playback. There are other, illicit technologies out there, but it's against forum rules to discuss them.

4) My own opinion is that on a full-room 5.1.2 system (or better), the vast majority of streaming Atmos mixes are much more impressive than what any DSP--even the Auromatic and Dolby Surround Upmixers on newer AVRs--could do. But as with quad and 5.1, there are also plenty of mixes that many people here consider "tame" or unimaginative, as well as some--usually though not exclusively from older stereo sources with no available multitracks--that, controversially, employ techniques which some regard as the functional equivalent of "upmixing."
 
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I understand there are many factors that go into making a great mix but what would you say the general overall quality is of these releases?
I would honestly say it's similar to the launch of 5.1 on disc in the early-2000s, there are some fantastic releases and some poorly-executed ones. The good stuff is worth signing up for.
 
these actual Surround or Atmos mixes with discrete channnel placement
Yes. Discrete is provided by Apple Music for both the Atmos and Dolby Audio mixes. It's really cool. I recently transitioned from basically a life of albums to Apple Music. Could not be happier.

The Atmos streams in a 5.1 format ("bed") so if you do not have an Atmos machine, a 5.1 processor will play the 5.1 discrete. Apple's Dolby Audio is also discrete. I believe many in that category are the original quad or 5.1 mix.

Going digital for me has been a great deal of fun. HDMI seems to be a bit finicky at times, unlike good ol' analog, but after the learning curve, it seems to operate great.

Welcome. I love your questions...all the ones I've had.

As already noted, mixes are mixes. Some are fantastic, others leave a lot to be desired. But so it goes with all things.
 
1) At what resolution are these Atmos mixes coming through via streaming? MP3 quality, Standard 44.1/16 or hopefully 24/96?
How are you "getting" Apple Music IN to your receiver? If via Bluetooth, I "think" resolution and sound quality both suffer compared with a digital (optical or coax) or HDMI connections. This post may also be viewed as a question from me, because I'm approaching the last few weeks of a month long quest to get streaming music IN to my circa 12/2004 receiver, and I was able to achieve 192/24, 96/24, and the "sweet spot" of 48/24 (because that's the highest resolution stereo audio signal that allows my Sony STR-DA9000ES receiver to process into ANY "Sound Field" which in my case is 2.1 AFD or "Auto Format Decode" so I don't lose my subwoofer on playback) with the WiiM Pro and several streaming services.
BUT
I am trying to wind up with just Apple Music as my service, and I have an Android Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra, an older Samsung tablet, and a Microsoft Windows Surface Pro 4 tablet. I may have to buy Apple hardware to use the WiiM Pro and AirPlay 2 to finally get 48/24 from Apple Music, but it is included with my Verizon service, so no $10/month fee, and that may justify buying whatever Apple hardware (strictly for streaming) that I may need.
 
How are you "getting" Apple Music IN to your receiver? If via Bluetooth, I "think" resolution and sound quality both suffer compared with a digital (optical or coax) or HDMI connections. This post may also be viewed as a question from me, because I'm approaching the last few weeks of a month long quest to get streaming music IN to my circa 12/2004 receiver, and I was able to achieve 192/24, 96/24, and the "sweet spot" of 48/24 (because that's the highest resolution stereo audio signal that allows my Sony STR-DA9000ES receiver to process into ANY "Sound Field" which in my case is 2.1 AFD or "Auto Format Decode" so I don't lose my subwoofer on playback) with the WiiM Pro and several streaming services.
BUT
I am trying to wind up with just Apple Music as my service, and I have an Android Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra, an older Samsung tablet, and a Microsoft Windows Surface Pro 4 tablet. I may have to buy Apple hardware to use the WiiM Pro and AirPlay 2 to finally get 48/24 from Apple Music, but it is included with my Verizon service, so no $10/month fee, and that may justify buying whatever Apple hardware (strictly for streaming) that I may need.
I am being told that the best way to go with this is to purchase the Apple 4K TV box and wire it into the receiver. Also if at all possible to use ethernet cable to the box rather than just the wireless in order to get the strongest signal.
 
I won't re-answer the questions, but clarify a couple things:
* Dolby Atmos is 24/48 and streams from a compatible Apple TV 4k box at 24/48; however, the bandwidth is limited due to streaming, so it is compressed. But good Atmos mixes sound very very good.
* HDMI is the vehicle, period. You can't stream Atmos from an Apple TV 4K to an Atmos-capable AVR/processor via anything else.
* You can download into your local (think iPhone) library and play back in Atmos to spatial-capable IEM/headphones like Airpods, etc. But they are DRM'd of sorts, and do not travel to thumb drives, etc. without some work.
 
1) Apple, Tidal, and Amazon all seem to be streaming Atmos at the lowest allowable bitrate, 768kpbs.
How does one check this number? I'm streaming Berlin Phil in atmos and am curious if the bitrate is the same.
 
How does one check this number? I'm streaming Berlin Phil in atmos and am curious if the bitrate is the same.
Some apps that control music streaming services will display the bit rate, frequency (44.1/48/96/192) and the 16 or 24 bit depth as well.
 
I find the sound quality to be excellent, whether that's the slightly higher bitrate, miking, or mix, I don't know.
Since you mentioned a number of factors, I have to say that I was particularly impressed with the "studio remaster" or whatever was used to create the "Yes The Studio Albums 1969-1986" It REALLY drove home how absolutely critical the source material quality is, versus frequency and bit depth. Then again, common sense or critical thinking would say if the low noise and great detail aren't there to start with it's hard to "fix" that.
Anyone who likes "Yes" should check this one out and don't be afraid of turning up the volume because this one is "snake-free".
Screenshot_20230302_103914_TIDAL.jpg
 
Im thinking about getting into streaming of amazon music to hear the atmos mixes of albums. The Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K Max is on sale here for $60. If i plug this into my onkyo receiver or tv, will i get Atmos mixes via amazon music?
As my receiver isnt Atmos compatible im hoping to hear down mixed atmos to 5.1
 
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