Atmos and 5.1 Speakers, is it worth it?

[jimfisheye]

Sony made an attempt to make current (at the time and still) digital equipment obsolete by creating a different digital format called DSD. Exactly as capable as HD PCM but a different "language" that needed all new AD and DA converters and software tools. Outside of a few desperate holdouts releasing the occasional SACD the world told them to get bent.

Atmos uses PCM digital like everything since 1980. It just adds more speakers and the height and object channels are scalable and can be rendered into a smaller array as needed on the fly. (Just like a media player or AVR can render 7.1 to 5.1 or 5.1 to stereo on the fly.)

Sony is threatening to go there again are they? Could be. It's in their wheelhouse. Probably just some gaslighting brochure speak to confuse consumers though and whatever it is uses standard PCM digital. A new form of copy protection in other words. They did give up and go back to PCM with bluray after all.

Still haven't seen the Atmos decoder codec released for computer served home theater yet... I still have extra outputs looking for something to do but no decoder ring!

 

[MidiMagic]

Are you worried at all that Sony's RA360 format will be the next surround "breakthrough" and will render current equipment obsolete?

Maybe that's why I stayed with DS PL II. Most recordings and movies still work with that.

All of this "buy mine, not theirs" and "upgrade upgrade upgrade" attitude is what killed off quad.

(That and the fact that most of the Q4 machines went into home studios.)

 

[ArmyOfQuad]

So my question would be....
I have 5 in ceiling speakers. What would I need to do to actually have Atmos? I have an Atmos receiver and it's set up for 5.1. Would a sound bar be sufficient. Would it be a waste since I have ceiling speakers?

This is the only sound bar I would find acceptable....

 

[Sal1950]

Are you worried at all that Sony's RA360 format will be the next surround "breakthrough" and will render current equipment obsolete?

Why? Auro is already out and probably be something else after that.
In my lifetime we went mono>stereo>3 channel>quad>5.1>7.1>immersive.
I'll lump immersive together since they all bring some type of height channels into the mix. With immersive coding most of us make do with a basic Atmos layout but for those with the money and room, they can take things further.
But I don't believe I've heard anyone who've added some form of a "real" height layer to say they were sorry they put in the cash and effort. IMHO the immersive playback experience brings almost as much to the party as the original quad did to stereo.
YMMV

 

[Sal1950]

All of this "buy mine, not theirs" and "upgrade upgrade upgrade" attitude is what killed off quad.

I won't deny that's part of it, but I'd say it was and always will be the "wife acceptance factor" that holds us back the most.
"You're not putting all that schitt in my living room" LOL

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Why? Auro is already out and probably be something else after that.
In my lifetime we went mono>stereo>3 channel>quad>5.1>7.1>immersive.
I'll lump immersive together since they all bring some type of height channels into the mix. With immersive coding most of us make do with a basic Atmos layout but for those with the money and room, they can take things further.
But I don't believe I've heard anyone who've added some form of a "real" height layer to say they were sorry they put in the cash and effort. IMHO the immersive playback experience brings almost as much to the party as the original quad did to stereo.
YMMV

Yeah, I understand. I never dealt with mon, nor 3 channel. I cant do 7.1 due to space limitations, So I'd have to settle for 5.4.1. The good part is the ceiling speakers would be easy. Up until a few weeks ago there was no need to be worried about an upgrade because the Atmos content simply wasn't there. The streaming possibility does change things though, as there is decent content via that source now. But still, RA360 is on the horizon, its backed by Sony., who is a major player in the industry, and its streaming now on Tidal. But as yet there is little, if any hardware that can handle the decode to a real system (not just BS headphones). That will certainly change. It just strikes me so much like the problems with Quad and the competing systems. I'm a separates guy. I have been from the beginning. Those AVRs with pre outs and the dedicated pre/pros aren't cheap. No one was regretting upgrading to Quad in its first year either.

 

[quicksrt]

I have a 7.1 compatible receiver but I am too lazy or not prepared at the moment to go to the trouble of redesigning my room to suit 2 more speakers

I also have a 7.1 AVR. So in the event, I change my mind...

 

[Sal1950]

I'm a separates guy. I have been from the beginning. Those AVRs with pre outs and the dedicated pre/pros aren't cheap. No one was regretting upgrading to Quad in its first year either.

We're pretty much on the same channel, I've run separates since 1979 and God knows it can get expensive. I've got more invested in my rig than I ever though possible.
But the point I was trying to make is that unlike the other changes, a new immersive format introduction does not necessarily obsolete the one before it.
IE: once you get at least a couple, preferably 4 speakers in/on the ceiling, all of the immersive formats I've so far been aware of will perform in a very reasonable manner with any of them. My 4 ceiling speakers were put up in the recommended Atmos layout but do work great with DTS-X and Auro, maybe not optimum but very well none the less. My Marantz 7703 pre/pro didn't come with Auro but I was able to upgrade it later with a simple firmware download. (and $199). Another free firmware download came later with a nice upgrade of the Dolby Surround/Atmos software.
I'm sure that if Sony 3D catches on I'd have to replace my 7703 to get perfect decoding of that format, but I'll bet just pushing the button that engages the Auro codex will give me a very nice immersive experience with the Sony coding and my 4 ceiling Atmos speakers. LOL
It's all a whole lot less complicated in real life than it sounds from the keyboard.
BTW, If you only have one subwoofer, when you get those 4 ceiling speakers up it will be a 5.1.4 system, not 5.4.1.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

BTW, If you only have one subwoofer, when you get those 4 ceiling speakers up it will be a 5.1.4 system, not 5.4.1.

I was wondering about that...

 

[ar surround]

BTW, If you only have one subwoofer, when you get those 4 ceiling speakers up it will be a 5.1.4 system, not 5.4.1.

I was wondering about that...

But the receiver that does 5.1.4 is advertised as 9.2. But then it says that it can do 11.2 if you have an external amp and second subwoofer. But then it says that you can use the RCA output for the second subwoofer as the VOG speaker in an Auro 3D setup instead of a second subwoofer.

And people used to think that quad was confusing?

 

[Electric Moo]

Is there an faq that explains what all the numerical audio formats are?

Ie: if I have 4x subwoofers, 4x sides, 2 fronts, 2 rears, 4 ceiling speakers, a center front, a distant speaker in the kitchen, and another outside in the backyard, what's it called?

 

[mrcond]

Is there an faq that explains what all the numerical audio formats are?

Ie: if I have 4x subwoofers, 4x sides, 2 fronts, 2 rears, 4 ceiling speakers, a center front, a distant speaker in the kitchen, and another outside in the backyard, what's it called?

7.4.4.1.1

 

[fredblue]

Is there an faq that explains what all the numerical audio formats are?

Ie: if I have 4x subwoofers, 4x sides, 2 fronts, 2 rears, 4 ceiling speakers, a center front, a distant speaker in the kitchen, and another outside in the backyard, what's it called?

grounds for divorce?

(sorry, couldn't resist!)

 

[Sal1950]

And people used to think that quad was confusing?

Buy them books,
Sent them to school,
What did they do?
Eat The Teacher.

 

[Electric Moo]

The speaker in the backyard works great for the dog barking, on that Roger Waters album.

They said they mixed it so the dog should sound like he's outside in the yard....well on my system, he IS outside in the yard!!

 

[MidiMagic]

But the receiver that does 5.1.4 is advertised as 9.2. But then it says that it can do 11.2 if you have an external amp and second subwoofer. But then it says that you can use the RCA output for the second subwoofer as the VOG speaker in an Auro 3D setup instead of a second subwoofer.

And people used to think that quad was confusing?

How many formats are there today????

By 1980, we had
RM (including QS, EV-4, DQ)
SQ
EV-U
UMX (including BMX and UD-4)
CD-4
Q4
Q8
Dolby Stereo

 

[pat bateman]

Sony made an attempt to make current (at the time and still) digital equipment obsolete by creating a different digital format called DSD. Exactly as capable as HD PCM but a different "language" that needed all new AD and DA converters and software tools. Outside of a few desperate holdouts releasing the occasional SACD the world told them to get bent.

Atmos uses PCM digital like everything since 1980. It just adds more speakers and the height and object channels are scalable and can be rendered into a smaller array as needed on the fly. (Just like a media player or AVR can render 7.1 to 5.1 or 5.1 to stereo on the fly.)

Sony is threatening to go there again are they? Could be. It's in their wheelhouse. Probably just some gaslighting brochure speak to confuse consumers though and whatever it is uses standard PCM digital. A new form of copy protection in other words. They did give up and go back to PCM with bluray after all.

Still haven't seen the Atmos decoder codec released for computer served home theater yet... I still have extra outputs looking for something to do but no decoder ring!

I think Sony is trying to go there again. There are a fair amount of titles on Tidal that are only available in 360 Audio, but not in Atmos. But the Atmos version is available on Apple Music. Pearl Jam being an example. So there is definitely some licensing BS going on.

I don't know why these companies haven't learned that people very rarely are going to buy special hardware to play/work with their proprietary codecs. DAC needed for Tidal's MQA, DSD as you mentioned, a special set of speakers from Sony to play 360 Audio, Amazon Music trying to make people buy a special single speaker for Atmos - its all maddening. Regardless of how you feel about Denon, the least expensive AVR is 2K that supports Auro 3D. I digress.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Is there an faq that explains what all the numerical audio formats are?

Ie: if I have 4x subwoofers, 4x sides, 2 fronts, 2 rears, 4 ceiling speakers, a center front, a distant speaker in the kitchen, and another outside in the backyard, what's it called?

9.4.4

Spoiler: POINT

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

My opinion is that one should buy the cheapest AVR that gets the job done because it is obsolete before you take it out of the box. In your case, if you want analog inputs for the Surround Master, then you might unfortunately be pigeonholed into the Marantz line. The Audio Science Review guy does not like the Marantz line, and panned the the TOTL AV8805A pre-pro based on his measurements. Yet there are many other reviewers out there who swear by that pre-pro.

I would be inclined to agree, but it seems you need to drop a decent chunk of change just to get an AVR with pre-outs. I would love to hook my Denon S740H to an amp and call it a day, but I will probably have to upgrade at some point.

 

[Sal1950]

7.4.4.1.1

The first number is the amount of base (floor level, not subwoofer) speakers you have, the second is how many subwoofers you have, the last is how many elevation speakers (Atmos, Auro, etc) speakers you have.