AV Processor: Repair or Buy New

[ar surround]

Ugh, now my Lexicon processor won't even boot up. I spoke with a knowledgeable technician. Sounds like it's a power supply problem. Parts are still readily available and the unit can be fixed, but repair is likely to be costly. I'm thinking a number between $1000 to $1500. (The unit when new in 2006 was $7000.)

Pros of repair:
- I get to keep my two sets of 5.1 analog inputs; which allows me to use the analog outputs from both my Oppo (ESS Sabre DAC) and Surround Master.
- I get to keep my highly adjustable version of Lexicon Logic7.
- I get to keep the ability to route the subwoofer channel to the mains AND the surrounds.
- Nice, subtle tone controls including Tilt Equalization.
- Familiarity: I've used this beast for 15 years.

Cons of repair:
- How long is this repair going to last before something else breaks? However, this power supply failure appears to be the Achilles heel of these Lexicon units while everything else in it is rock solid.
- I'm stuck with 5.1 inputs....No 7.1 or possibility of Dolby Atmos.


Pros of buying new (Target product: Marantz AV7706):
- HDMI inputs will simplify things...I hope.
- Room correction (assuming these gizmos even work)
- 7.1 analog inputs to handle the Surround Master
- Dolby Atmos

Cons of buying new:
- No Logic7 (Even the new Lexicon gear does not have adjustable Logic7.)
- Finicky digital equipment, including HDMI
- Is this new stuff essentially "throw-away" digital gear, like a phone?
- Even more digital gizmos to deal with...Is there any way of keeping this stuff relatively simple? I really don't want to use a phone app to control a processor for heavens sake! The Lexicon is so complicated that it took me 10 years to fully master the capabilities of the unit.

I'm on the fence about what to do. I'm really concerned about the reliability of the new equipment.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks.
AR

 

[DuncanS]

If its a Power Supply (PSU) it should be fairly easily fixed, and it shouldn't cost $1000, parts available in 2006 in the PSU ought to still be available, so it'll be mainly labour costs. The issue is that if a PSU fails with no o/p that is usually OK for most devices (a lot of multiple supply chips will survive), but the PSUs can fail and let through the 'raw' higher supply thats when things go phut.

Its when you try to obtain the more 'esoteric' chips that the problem can arise, some manufacturers have custom chips produced which are either no longer made or you can't get. So I would agree a price for your Tech guy to scope out the issue, and see where that leads.

The issue with newer AVRs is support, my 2013 £2000 Pioneer only had 1 software update the following year, then no more, they moved on to the next new amp. it won't work with the latest HDCP 2.2 found on HDMI, so some devices won't output audio to it.

 

[ProgRules]

If this is a purely audio system with no video, I'd say not having to deal with HDMI is a major plus. I've had many headaches caused by HDMI issues- and they are often hard to diagnose.

I don't have any experience with Marantz or Lexicon gear, so no opinion on reliability. In general, I think we've passed the peak of AV gear being built to last. But the problem I've noticed with newer gear is obsolescence due to new standards- but many of those are HDMI-related and usually related to video issues.

Tough call- FWIW (probably not much) I'd stay with the Lexicon.

 

[gene_stl]

I would say repair it. I agree that a power supply repair should not cost that much. Especially if the parts are available from Lexicon.

If you decide to buy the SchMarantz I might be interested in purchasing the Lexicon and attempting to repair it. I would also be willing to take a run at it for you.

All currently manufactured gear such as a Marantz or a Lexicon have unavoidable elements of "throw away ness" as in a cell phone. That is they ALL have surface mount devices, and ROHS lead free solder (one of the worst ideas ever) so that it is very difficult to repair a circuit board. If a new board is not available you are usually out of luck. The circuit boards have very high functional density which requires high component density. You can't get one without the other.

There is a great element of luck involved.

As a person who currently spends days repairing scientific gear and has worked for commercial companies repairing both scientific gear AND audio equipment I have to say: I don't like the statement from your competent audio technician that its a power supply and will cost between 1000 and 1500. Unless maybe he knows that that is what Lexicon charges for the part. Open frame SMPS are usually less than 100.

 

[hafquark]

For something as nice as that Lexicon, I'd go for the repair rather than investing in a new AVR. I agree with ProgRules that reasonably priced high quality AV gear is mostly a thing of the past.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Having given this about 30 mins of deep thought after seeing your post, I say keep & repair. Gotta agree with collective group opinion so far. Not only are you obviously happy with it when it's working, my suspicion of newer gear is that it less audio centric & gives up quality in that area to make room for video, Bluetooth, streaming stuff...

Very happy with my older Anthem AVM30. I know how you feel.

 

[Mcallister]

I know in a different thread you mentioned the HTP-1, try it, 30 back guarantee if you don’t like it. I really think you will be highly impressed.

the Marantz isn’t in the same league and the Lex albeit great for it’s time is out dated and the HTP will outperform it in not only features but sound quality

 

[ar surround]

I know in a different thread you mentioned the HTP-1, try it, 30 back guarantee if you don’t like it. I really think you will be highly impressed.

the Marantz isn’t in the same league and the Lex albeit great for it’s time is out dated and the HTP will outperform it in not only features but sound quality

Thanks, McAllister. Unfortunately, it lacks analog inputs which precludes direct connection of the Surround Master. Also, it seems that the superb DAC in this model has been at the mercy of the chip shortage. Consequently, the HTP-1 is extremely hard to find.

 

[ar surround]

Thank you for all of your responses and advice.

...The issue is that if a PSU fails with no o/p that is usually OK for most devices (a lot of multiple supply chips will survive), but the PSUs can fail and let through the 'raw' higher supply thats when things go phut...

I think that the Lex is OK in that regard, Duncan. It has a relay that clicks on after the Diagnostic Tests are complete, which then routes power to the audio circuitry. That relay stopped clicking when the unit hung up, so I believe that it is protecting itself by not booting up.

I would say repair it. I agree that a power supply repair should not cost that much. Especially if the parts are available from Lexicon.

The nearest authorized repair shop is in NYC with its associated high labor costs. Not to mention that Lexicon equipment is expensive by definition...You know...people charge more to repair a Lexus than a Toyota simply because they can. The $1000 to $1500 figure is my estimate, not the tech's. I'm just trying to get my arms around what a full repair may cost vs. buying new. It's $160 for the tech to look it over and come up with a full estimate. From my discussion with him, he seems to know his shit upside down and inside out.

I would also be willing to take a run at it for you.

Thanks, Gene. It's easier for me to take it into NYC since I have to be there sometime in the next few weeks anyway.

 

[ar surround]

...If you decide to buy the SchMarantz...

Why do some call it "SchMarantz"? Is there something about the product line I should know that would keep me from considering it?

 

[gene_stl]

Why do some call it "SchMarantz"? Is there something about the product line I should know that would keep me from considering it?

You mean there is another humor genius somewhere who came up with the same sophomoric joke????

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Why do some call it "SchMarantz"? Is there something about the product line I should know that would keep me from considering it?

I think it's just one of those cutesy things people say... like Fleabay, Interweb, and "what can I do ya for?".

 

[Audiowannabee]

A 7k piece of equipment deserves a considerationof fixing it imho however if looking at marantz id consider a SR 6014or better as the SR AVR line still has analog inputs

 

[MidiMagic]

15 years is about the lifespan for electrolytic capacitors . A recap in the power supply might fix everything.

 

[ar surround]

15 years is about the lifespan for electrolytic capacitors . A recap in the power supply might fix everything.

I was lying in bed this morning and the same thought popped into my head. I recapped five big AR speakers in the last few years, so I'm familiar with the work/process. Remarkably, my Yamaha M45 amp (circa late 1980's) still seems fine.

 

[GOS]

I think it's just one of those cutesy things people say... like Fleabay, Interweb, and "what can I do ya for?".

We've all been caught. We have a local grocery store called County Market......and we like to call it County Markup. lol

 

[Scott65]

We've all been caught. We have a local grocery store called County Market......and we like to call it County Markup. lol

at least you didn.t drop one of the letters in 'County'....

 

[Scott65]

15 years is about the lifespan for electrolytic capacitors . A recap in the power supply might fix everything.

My Yamaha rx-v2600 stopped working a few years ago. A replacement capacitor in the power supply fixed it, for a modest cost.

 

[quicksrt]

Ugh, now my Lexicon processor won't even boot up. I spoke with a knowledgeable technician. Sounds like it's a power supply problem. Parts are still readily available and the unit can be fixed, but repair is likely to be costly. I'm thinking a number between $1000 to $1500. (The unit when new in 2006 was $7000.)

I'm on the fence about what to do. I'm really concerned about the reliability of the new equipment.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks.
AR

I would think that PSU is one of the easier repairs that can be done. And are you sure no shops or repair people in Joisey closer by?

 

[gene_stl]

I generally take a very dim view of undiagnosed electrolytic capacitor replacement. If it ain't broke , don't fix it. Usually when capacitors cause problems it is only one or a couple out of all of them that has dried up or poofed. You just replace that one and it starts working again. That is why God made service technicians.

I have been testing my late seventies gear on a good test bench lately and am AMAZED at how it all (so far about half of it) just keeps perking along and meeting really great specs. (Down in the noise of the test gear mostly). This includes three Pioneer Elite M-22 Class A Power Amp/Toasters. If anything was going to dry up these would. But this points to one of the reasons not to. Are you sure your self appointed recapping tech, knows how to pick the correct capacitors for your application. Does he guarantee a measureable and measured performance improvement?

This is a current fashion in audiophilia, that is , as usual, a method of separating money from audiophiles, who are not electronically trained nor knowledgeable. I have seen military surplus test gear from the 1930s and 40s, that still works fine, and I prefer to work on scientific gear from the 50s through late 70s because it is usually repairable.

It is correct that you can often ressurrect a dead computer motherboard by replacing the electrolytic capacitors in it and I have done this repair many times. Mostly on terminals from the 1970s that were on 24/7 and are no longer made. About 60+% came back to life with cap replacement only.

The reason you know snake oil is involved, is that they not only tell you it will start working again (if it's not working), but whether or not it is working, they tell you it will sound better. Just my not at all humble opinion. ymmv