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BBC QUAD Broadcasts-specifically SQ and QS

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fizzywiggs41

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I've no idea where Billboard got that 'story' from but there's not a single scrap of evidence to support it over here where it was supposed to have happened and the activities of the BBC were (and still are) closely scrutinised and documented.
Why did the likes of Angus McKenzie never mention them (even after the event?). Why did the BBC not publish the results of such tests or mention them in their own study reports? Why did no BBC engineers ever talk about them?


Why was it so secretive you ask, well for obvious reasons. Not as secretive as you would have been led to believe if BBC Radio Times was your only source of info, and as my (now deceased ) friend and journalist........Alan Turner managed to record some Classical works in SQ matrix.
He offered them to me after he gleaned all the rock , pop, plays, that I wanted from his 22 Reels of H and HJ broadcast. Unfortunately all his BEEB SQ was Classical---so I passed on that.

So sorry that you were not in the loop , as he was.
And too bad he did not have a like of rock or pop or I would definitely of availed myself to that offer.

"Blind " matrix tests have to be so . Simply put..... A PLACEBO effect , which is the only true means for establishing both mono and stereo compatibility.

This you know was done and I showed you the secret H broadcasts from August 76 Proms.
Additionally secret was the Norrie Paramor album in H ....on ....the ....BBC ...Record label, no less!
 

fizzywiggs41

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That seems a little strange, since QS does offer more compatibility with mono than SQ. If there was a problem with the mono transmitters, I doubt the specific matrix was the cause. I'd expect SQ to be more problematic.

Although QS is a better matrix for anyone receiving it in quad , it is not very good with mono compatibility and is the main reason the BBC rejected it.
At the time ,90+% of their listenership were receiving mono.


SQ was better for mono compatibility , but could cause phasiness in stereo receivers.
 

gvl_guy

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Although QS is a better matrix for anyone receiving it in quad , it is not very good with mono compatibility and is the main reason the BBC rejected it.
At the time ,90+% of their listenership were receiving mono.


SQ was better for mono compatibility , but could cause phasiness in stereo receivers.
Back in the early 80's, I was the program director for a suburban NYC radio station. I wanted to play Steely Dan's "Do It Again." I had the quadraphonic album, so I dubbed the song off on a cart. It sounded great in the studio and while riding in the car. No issues. But there was a record rep for Arista Records in Manhattan who could pick up our station in his office tower. He listened to us all the time. One day he called me and asked me what was wrong with that Steely Dan song. He said there were no vocals! He was listening on a mono clock radio at his desk. Yikes!
 

Soundfield

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Here were the systems used in the BBC matrix trials:

Matrix A was QS, no logic.
Matrix B was SQ, no logic.
Matrix C was QS, with logic.
Matrix D was SQ, with logic.
Matrix E was a tetrahedral matrix Peter Scheiber proposed for high separation.
Matrix F was UMX (BMX), no logic.
Matrix G was matrix F modified to reduce the phasey stereo image.
Matrix GX was G modified to reduce the phasey stereo image. (GX was not tested in the trials.)
Matrix HX was GX further modified to reduce the phasey stereo image. (HX was not tested in the trials.)
Matrix H was Matrix HX further modified to reduce phasiness.
Matrix J was H further modified to reduce phasiness. (This was done after the trials ended.)
Matrix HJ was J further modified to reduce phasiness. (This was done after the trials ended.)
Matrix HJ was later renamed UHJ.
But as the BBC study reports make clear, the pre-existing commercial formats were subject to studio based decode / playback testing only. All bar Matrix H were rejected as being unsuitable for broadcasting in 1974 and no further work was done on them. It was only Matrix H (and its subsequent HJ modification) that was deemed worth developing and subsequently subjecting to a broadcast trial.
 
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BrentAudi

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Back in the early 80's, I was the program director for a suburban NYC radio station. I wanted to play Steely Dan's "Do It Again." I had the quadraphonic album, so I dubbed the song off on a cart. It sounded great in the studio and while riding in the car. No issues. But there was a record rep for Arista Records in Manhattan who could pick up our station in his office tower. He listened to us all the time. One day he called me and asked me what was wrong with that Steely Dan song. He said there were no vocals! He was listening on a mono clock radio at his desk. Yikes!
Great, funny story!
 

Bob Romano

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No. Usually it’s keyboards or guitars and the crowd. And they aren’t really discrete sounding but IMO they decode better than the KBFH tapes.
 

fizzywiggs41

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But as the BBC study reports make clear, the pre-existing commercial formats were subject to studio based decode / playback testing only. All bar Matrix H were rejected as being unsuitable for broadcasting in 1974 and no further work was done on them. It was only Matrix H (and its subsequent HJ modification) that was deemed worth developing and subsequently subjecting to a broadcast trial.

Well not exactly .

H and HJ were deemed BBC property and consequently any financial considerations would fall their way.

H and HJ were part of the "OFFICIAL " demonstrations by the BEEB.

Its also worth noting that Ben Bauer tried diligently to get the BBC to adopt CBS 'S SQ matrix.

SQ and QS were played on occasion and unofficially .

It's interesting to note that just prior to Autumn 77 , Angus McKenzie did a small sumation of the H experiments and he actually favoured Discrete as the primary quad format of his choice.
But if he had to have a quad matrix......he favoured QS and not the BBC 'S H .
 

fizzywiggs41

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Back in the early 80's, I was the program director for a suburban NYC radio station. I wanted to play Steely Dan's "Do It Again." I had the quadraphonic album, so I dubbed the song off on a cart. It sounded great in the studio and while riding in the car. No issues. But there was a record rep for Arista Records in Manhattan who could pick up our station in his office tower. He listened to us all the time. One day he called me and asked me what was wrong with that Steely Dan song. He said there were no vocals! He was listening on a mono clock radio at his desk. Yikes!

That is quite funny , indeed.

And that was the very same reason why Tom Moulton had to go back in the studio and redo Gloria Gaynor's -Experience album.
For those who don't know......He encoded the original secretly in Sansui QS .
 
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Soundfield

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It's interesting to note that just prior to Autumn 77 , Angus McKenzie did a small sumation of the H experiments and he actually favoured Discrete as the primary quad format of his choice.
A shame that despite their close relationship, the BBC somehow forgot to tell Angus about their secret SQ and QS transmissions as I'm sure he would have been fairly interested.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Maybe he knew or maybe he didn't, hard to say really.

I was kinda surprised that he chose QS as a standard matrix quad that the BEEB should use , even over H. But he was thinking HIS OWN experience with matrix, and HIS OWN preferences.


Fwiw this is an interesting sumation of his on the BBC H system from Oct 77. He does not say those 76 proms were quad matrix , but also does not specifically mention they were stereo either . My personal opinion is that they were stereo...........but only he (and the BBC Engineer) knows for certain.

We do however know that 2 of those Proms in AUGUST 76 were indeed Matrix H Quad.


20200225_132720.jpg
 

Q-Eight

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I'm sorry. I can't resist. Pardon me for injecting some humor into this thread.

Dr_Evil.jpg


"Matrices A through G were complete failures. We finally settled upon Matrix H. On the hole, I find Matrix H feels good, eh?"

Seriously? Nobody else was thinking this but me?

🤣 We now return you to the regularly scheduled serious discussion.
 
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gvl_guy

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That is quite funny , indeed.

And that was the very same reason why Tom Moulton had to go back in the studio and redo Gloria Gaynor's -Experience album.
For those who don't know......He encoded the original secretly in Sansui QS .
Was that album released in "quad" or maybe it was not marked that way?
 

Soundfield

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Maybe he knew or maybe he didn't, hard to say really.

Fwiw this is an interesting sumation of his on the BBC H system from Oct 77.

View attachment 46702
Of course it’s just possible that he didn’t comment on the BBC’s SQ and QS test transmissions because they never happened isn’t it?

In the summary article by him that you show, isn’t it odd that he doesn’t compare any such supposed SQ and QS broadcast trials with the H trials, even in passing? Given his preference for the QS system he would surely have cited any performance benefits demonstrated under broadcast conditions if there had ever been any such evidence he could have called on to advance his argument.
 

rustyandi

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Way back The ABC in Melbourne Had a program on Saturday morning
Playing BBC Quad Matrix at the time I was taking My Daughters all over the
place Dancing /Flute/Gym
I recorded a couple of programs on Cassette
Part of Tomita in SQ SnowFlakes.
Part Concert 6 Wives Henry 8th SQ
Ronnie Aldrich SQ plus other tracks all in SQ
 
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