Bernard Herrman, "The Film Scores"

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humprof

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So I was just reading this old article from Mix ("6 Views on 5.1") in which Richard King talks excitedly about reissuing an album of Bernard Herrman film music originally released in Dolby Surround as a discrete DVD-A. I'm assuming he's referring to this one, with Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting the LA Phil. But Discogs doesn't list a DVD-A release. Anybody know what happened with that (and/or have any opinion about the Dolby Surround CD)?
 
So I was just reading this old article from Mix ("6 Views on 5.1") in which Richard King talks excitedly about reissuing an album of Bernard Herrman film music originally released in Dolby Surround as a discrete DVD-A. I'm assuming he's referring to this one, with Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting the LA Phil. But Discogs doesn't list a DVD-A release. Anybody know what happened with that (and/or have any opinion about the Dolby Surround CD)?

It was eventually released as a single~layered stereo SACD by Sony: https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=318

If you want an absolutely sensational discrete QUAD Bernard Herrmann experience, I very highly recommend this QUAD BD~A from HDTT Transfers: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...ts/the-fantasy-film-world-of-bernard-herrmann

It's taken from a dolby b encoded Quad Open Reel but HDTT has done a phenomenal job in transferring this to a BD~A. It's available cheaper if you don't opt for the BD~A case [it comes in a plain enclosure with NO liner notes but is almost $10 less + s/h].

Another sensational Herrmann soundtrack for Brian DiPalma's film Obsession [Oscar nominated for best soundtrack] is also available as a multichannel BD~A: https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=10733
 
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It was eventually released as a single~layered stereo SACD by Sony: https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=318

If you want an absolutely sensational discrete QUAD Bernard Herrmann experience, I very highly recommend this QUAD BD~A from HDTT Transfers: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...ts/the-fantasy-film-world-of-bernard-herrmann

It's taken from a dolby b encoded Quad Open Reel but HDTT has done a phenomenal job in transferring this to a BD~A. It's available cheaper if you don't opt for the BD~A case [it comes in a plain enclosure with NO liner notes but is almost $10 less + s/h].

Another sensational Herrmann soundtrack for Brian DiPalma's film Obsession [Oscar nominated for best soundtrack] is also available as a multichannel BD~A: https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=10733

I've heard about the HDTT recording; glad to hear a firsthand endorsement.

I wonder if the SACD of the LA Phil/Salonen recording retained the Dolby Surround encoding. (Of course what I'm really wondering is: whatever happened to the discrete DVD-A that was supposedly in the can?)
 
I've heard about the HDTT recording; glad to hear a firsthand endorsement.

I wonder if the SACD of the LA Phil/Salonen recording retained the Dolby Surround encoding. (Of course what I'm really wondering is: whatever happened to the discrete DVD-A that was supposedly in the can?)

At the time SONY wasn't producing DVD~A [only SACDs] unless they were referring to a dualdisc in which case it would've been a RBCD on one side and an 'enhanced stereo' [16/48] DVD on the other side. Luckily, they released it as an SACD with higher resolution.
 
Luckily, they released it as an SACD with higher resolution.

Sure. It's just that they didn't release it in the discrete quad version that King had apparently just prepared. (See below.)

At the time SONY wasn't producing DVD~A [only SACDs] unless they were referring to a dualdisc in which case it would've been a RBCD on one side and an 'enhanced stereo' [16/48] DVD on the other side.

Agreed--it's strange that he would have referred to it as a DVD-A. But here's the relevant bit from the article:

"One project I've done recently," King says, "is a record of Bernard Hermann film music that originally came out in 1996 in stereo, but [at that time] we also did a Dolby matrix surround on the CD, and now we're going to reissue it as a discrete surround. We recorded it 20-bit, 44.1 at the time, but we're going to bump it up to 88, and as I mix it, it will become 24 bits. So that will be discrete DVD-A. It was recorded in L.A. originally with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. It was a 48-track, and I did stems for surround for later, so now I'm just going to refine the stems that I made in '96 for this release."
 
Sure. It's just that they didn't release it in the discrete quad version that King had apparently just prepared. (See below.)



Agreed--it's strange that he would have referred to it as a DVD-A. But here's the relevant bit from the article:
Always thought it was singularly baffling that this SACD was only released in stereo, although it wasn't the only Dolby Surround CD that was stereo-only on SACD (the Delos Mahler 2nd from Dallas was another). Perhaps indicative of Sony's early fumbles with SACD.
 
Always thought it was singularly baffling that this SACD was only released in stereo, although it wasn't the only Dolby Surround CD that was stereo-only on SACD (the Delos Mahler 2nd from Dallas was another). Perhaps indicative of Sony's early fumbles with SACD.

Amazon has the current RBCD version available as a CD~R and if you scan down to the reviews [with reviewer's photo scans of the CD~R] it does retain the Dolby Surround moniker so wonder if the SACD was derived from the matrix masters utilized for the Dolby Surround RBCD?

https://www.amazon.com/Bernard-Herr...rd_wg=CCJOV&psc=1&refRID=BTNEBRQ95N997RK23Z9F
 
Possible. I'm sure the CD sells cheap used. I'd have far preferred discrete, though.

You're correct that SONY screwed up a lot of their inaugural SACDs by omitting a multichannel layer when, clearly, multichannel masters were available and even more baffling was their decision to embrace dual disc and releasing DD 5.1 DVDs, thus abandoning their own creation, SACD.....which had it ALL.
 
I heartily endorse this product and/or service.
I don't. I bought a couple transfers from them thinking they would be better than my own. Unfortunately both recordings were about 10% slow, making everything sound off key. I confirmed this problem by comparing the track lengths with the "official" digital stereo equivalents. I requested an explanation from HDTT, but they never responded.
 
I don't. I bought a couple transfers from them thinking they would be better than my own. Unfortunately both recordings were about 10% slow, making everything sound off key. I confirmed this problem by comparing the track lengths with the "official" digital stereo equivalents. I requested an explanation from HDTT, but they never responded.

Specifically, which titles are you referring to?

I can assure you that The Fantasy Film World of Bernard Herrmann has No such problem.

What I do find disconcerting is I recently purchased an authorized SONY CD~R [from Amazon] and it was blank but luckily the exchanged copy was perfect.

You should've demanded a refund.
 
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Bach's Greatest Fugues and Scheherazade

I listened INTENTLY to both aforementioned HDTT BD~A 4.0 transfers tonight and I'd like to think I have perfect pitch and at NO time did I detect any drag or other anomalies [wow, flutter, tape hiss drop outs and/or print through] associated with these two titles. IMO, HDTT utilizes state of the art Open Reel decks which are outfitted with custom electronics/heads/wiring and represent superior capabilities unlike consumer Open Reel QUAD decks which were available in the 70's. The mass produced Open Reels were probably duplicated from second or third generation masters @ 7 1/2 ips from 15 ips master tapes. Sure, I'd love to hear them in higher definition via QUAD SACDs duplicated from the original masters [are you listening Dutton Vocalion], but until that becomes reality, I am very satisfied with these transfers especially @ the ridiculously low sale price I purchased them for [under $15 each].

Within the last year, I notice that a lot of HDTT Jazz and classical titles have been duplicated from 15 ips Open Reel Tapes which leads me to believe that either HDTT has gone legitimate or their source is someone who worked within the recording industry and was privy to [possibly] one to one transfers from the original masters. Example: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...ducts/blue-bash-kenny-burrell-and-jimmy-smith

I also highly recommend this Bernard Herrmann discrete QUAD BD~A title from HDTT [music from Citizen Kane, etc.] from another dolby b encoded OR Tape: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...harmonic-orchestra-blu-ray-audio-4-0-surround

Another absolutely gorgeous QUAD BD~A of film music [Franz Waxman] derived from another dolby b encoded Open Reel and extremely discrete: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...-national-philharmonic-orchestra-4-0-surround

And to reiterate, this extremely DISCRETE QUAD BD~A [Fantasy Film World of Bernard Herrmann] is slam dunk BRILLIANT: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...ts/the-fantasy-film-world-of-bernard-herrmann

BTW, ALL the BD~As are 192/24 resolution/ DTS 4.0 HD~MA
 
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I'm happy that you enjoy them. I just wanted to warn potential buyers of a possible issue with their transfers. I do not have perfect pitch, but after listening to my Q4 transfers, I can't listen to the HDTT versions anymore. They sound plodding and dragging and off key. Here's the info I sent HDTT on the "Bach's Greatest Fugues" transfer.

Track times from the back of the Q4 box:

R2R_tracks.jpg


HDTT track times from foobar2000:

HDTT_Tracks.JPG


As you can see, the track times are off quite a bit (I put the Q4 box track lengths in parentheses with the track title.) You can download the literature from each of these releases on the HDTT site, but you will find that all of the track length information has been removed from their literature. All of this adds up to me being suspect of their process.

Like I said, enjoy them if you can.
 
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As you can see, the track times are off quite a bit (I put the Q4 box track lengths in parentheses with the track title.) Every transfer I bought from HDTT is off by about the same percentage, including: "Bach's Greatest Fugues", "Scheherazade" and "A Salute To Glenn Miller".

Yikes, that's definitely scary! The good news is that you got me to compare my download of the quad Herrmann in question with the same recordings that appear on the official stereo CD titled Great Film Music and the pitch is identical. So I have no reason to doubt your experience, but at least this one title appears to have been transferred correctly.
 
Yikes, that's definitely scary! The good news is that you got me to compare my download of the quad Herrmann in question with the same recordings that appear on the official stereo CD titled Great Film Music and the pitch is identical. So I have no reason to doubt your experience, but at least this one title appears to have been transferred correctly.

As I did mention in my previous post [#15 above], HDTT utilizes the newer breed of UBER PRO calibrated OPEN REEL DECKS with CUSTOM tape heads/electronics and internal wiring which FAR, FAR exceed consumer grade Open Reel Decks produced in the 70's and perhaps the difference in timings comes down to how they identify fades and spaces between tracks, etc.

Believe me....if the HDTT transfers were suspect, I'd CLEARLY hear it on my system and frankly, I don't.

Until [and if EVER] an enterprising firm such as Dutton Vocalion can access the original masters and produce QUAD SACDs of some of these treasures, I highly recommend the efforts of HDTT to bring these wonderful titles to fruition. And if you wait for their sales [15~20% off], an even better bargain. Sign up for their emails and they will apprise you of their [many] sales.
 
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...perhaps the difference in timings comes down to how they identify fades and spaces between tracks, etc.

I don't see how a 54 second difference on the first track of "Bach's Greatest Fugues" could be attributed to "fades and spaces". The other tracks are off by significant amounts as well and the pitch is totally wrong on all of the tracks. I went back and played all of these that I have from HDTT and "Bach's Greatest Fugues" is the only one that is really bad. The track lengths of my other titles from HDTT are close enough. I was mistaken in saying they were all off by the same amount; as I was going from memory. I think I was so upset about this title that I generalized it to all titles from HDTT. I think this points to a possible bad source tape for "Bach's Greatest Fugues."
 
I don't see how a 54 second difference on the first track of "Bach's Greatest Fugues" could be attributed to "fades and spaces". The other tracks are off by significant amounts as well and the pitch is totally wrong on all of the tracks. I went back and played all of these that I have from HDTT and "Bach's Greatest Fugues" is the only one that is really bad. The track lengths of my other titles from HDTT are close enough. I was mistaken in saying they were all off by the same amount; as I was going from memory. I think I was so upset about this title that I generalized it to all titles from HDTT. I think this points to a possible bad source tape for "Bach's Greatest Fugues."

It's quite possible the transfer you received was faulty and was since corrected. Here are other reviewer's comment from HDTT tracks and BTW, HDTT does publish negative reviews, when warranted: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...uble-orchestra-ormandy-philadelphia-orchestra

Since HDTT does offer digital downloads in many formats [DSD, FLAC, WAV, etc], I'm sure they would've caught a faulty transfer by now because my BD~A is faultless with stunning discrete surround engagement.

As I previously stated, when HDTT has their 20% off sales, buying these BD~As without the BD case/liner notes is a prudent way to add these titles to one's collection [probably about $12 each]. IMO, they're well worth it!
 
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