Bill Bruford in surround!

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

rtbluray

Hi-Res Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
QQ Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
8,803
Location
Middle TN
Precisely what happened with Jakko's ELP's BSS mix....I know I've said it before but I talked briefly to Jakko and mentioned this and he IMMEDIATELY stopped talking to me and walked away..politely...so there was some definite foul play by Greg Lake..
I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you are just speculating again about Greg Lake's involvement with the screwups on Jakko's 5.1 mix of "Brain Salad Surgery".
 

ssully

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Jul 2, 2003
Messages
3,080
Location
in your face
Most players have a "DRC"—dynamic range compression—setting that can be switched on or off. This is not a traditional compressor as used in recording/mixing/mastering, but the very algorithm triggered by Dolby dialnorm metadata. It is activated by this metadata and it dynamically lowers and raises the volume of all channels in accordance with the dialnorm specifications, and may also be used by the player for non-Dolby material (without the metadata) triggered by actual program level. This will, of course, change the dynamic relationships from one section of program material to another. It is therefore usually best to turn it off for music playback so that the intended dynamics are kept intact. I'm surprised you don't know this, given your seemingly extensive knowledge of AC3.


You are confusing level adjustment with dynamic range adjustment. Those are separate functions and separate Dolby metadata too. Dialnorm is the only *mandatory* Dolby metadata for consumers. Dialnorm value is also used as the reference value for the optional consumer DRC, which, for Dolby material, is instructed by the Dialnorm metadata + Dolby DRC metadata. If you turn off DRC* Dialnorm itself still remains 'on' as an overall all-channel output level reducer for Dolby-encoded material (except in the rare cases where dialnorm was set to unity, i.e, no adjustment). It therefore *will* affect listening comparisons with non-AC3-encoded audio, despite DRC being 'off'


*I'm not aware that Dolby DRC can be turned on or off *separately* by the consumer from all other hardware DRC, but again, I haven't dug into those menus on rig for ages. The 'primary' DRC for my Denon AVR (where all of my Dolby/DTS decoding is done), the one controlled from a remote control button, affects all sources, not just Dolby.
 

ssully

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Jul 2, 2003
Messages
3,080
Location
in your face
and btw we're way off track here, which is where "OMG Dullby, it's just intolerable, no sale" posts lead.

I'd sure like to read more impressions of the Bruford 5.1 mixes from others *who have have actually heard them*.
 

ssully

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Jul 2, 2003
Messages
3,080
Location
in your face
Just to get in on this side-tangent, regardless of how imperceptible the difference is, I would always prefer to have an exact copy of the original audio, or a losslessly compressed equivalent thereof, than a lossy mix, even if it's supposedly transparent. Wouldn't everyone?
If this *mix* was what I *preferred*, AC3 would still be a total nonissue for me. And in lossless , this mix would still be disappointing.

I'm as 'archival minded' as anyone, though, so I like to have a version that isn't already processed, in case *I* want to process it! It's not advisable to run lossy sources through *further* lossy processing, for example, so I'm prevented from doing that with a lossy-only source.
 

kap'n krunch

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
7,501
Location
estados hundidos
I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you are just speculating again about Greg Lake's involvement with the screwups on Jakko's 5.1 mix of "Brain Salad Surgery".
Wel, yes, I AM speculating. Now, if you try yo talk to Jakko, he'll have NONE of it, which leads me to believe that SOMEBODY tinkered with the mix after it was "properly" done, and of all people who MAY have had access , it was Greg (RIP)....cause there is NO WAY in Hades that Jakko could have done that....
 

GOS

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
16,215
Location
Central Illinois
Is anyone looking for a "discounted" price on this title? Opened, but obviously mint condition? Let me know if there is any interest.......
I'm just testing the waters.... PM would be best as not to clutter up this thread. You all know I'm fair....but won't give it away.
 

Steve Schoultz

400 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
460
Location
San Antonio, TX
Man this just sad. I’m so disappointed because I really love both Feels Good to Me and One of a Kind. I have the set and haven’t listened yet. Was hopeful for some more at least kind of positive reviews. So it is virtually unanimous the DVDs are terrible. Are there any opinions about the CDs? Such a missed opportunity!
 

timbre4

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
7,527
Location
College Grove, TN
Man this just sad. I’m so disappointed because I really love both Feels Good to Me and One of a Kind. I have the set and haven’t listened yet. Was hopeful for some more at least kind of positive reviews. So it is virtually unanimous the DVDs are terrible. Are there any opinions about the CDs? Such a missed opportunity!
The set arrived just as I left for a weeks worth of travel which I got home from last night. I promise to post impressions of the mix itself whenever I get caught up. I didn’t want to post on just a single play back of one of a kind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ssully

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Jul 2, 2003
Messages
3,080
Location
in your face
Man this just sad. I’m so disappointed because I really love both Feels Good to Me and One of a Kind. I have the set and haven’t listened yet. Was hopeful for some more at least kind of positive reviews. So it is virtually unanimous the DVDs are terrible. Are there any opinions about the CDs? Such a missed opportunity!

There's only been 3-4 reports so far. For heaven's sake, just listen to them yourself, don't wait to hear what others say. Then report back here.
 

skherbeck

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
3,280
Location
SoCal, USA
Man this just sad. I’m so disappointed because I really love both Feels Good to Me and One of a Kind. I have the set and haven’t listened yet. Was hopeful for some more at least kind of positive reviews. So it is virtually unanimous the DVDs are terrible. Are there any opinions about the CDs? Such a missed opportunity!
I personally DON'T think these DVDs are terrible discs... in terms of surround, there's some nice discrete stuff going on; "Feels Good To Me" sounds fine in terms of fidelity (not stellar; kind of like what you might get with an average sounding old quad); "One Of A Kind" also has a nice surround mix, but the drums just sound dull and recessed (like a bad old quad... maybe like "Best of the Guess Who" or something)... after some treble & bass adjustments, I'm happy with "One Of A Kind".

In terms of what you expect from an expensive modern boxed set, yes, these could be called terrible... but judged in comparison to all the surround mixes ever released (which I havn't heard yet, mind you), I'd say these are alright... listenable, and enjoyable (I'd probably vote "One of a Kind" a 6-7 and "Feels Good To Me" a 7-8)
 

ctoelle

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
229
I personally DON'T think these DVDs are terrible discs...
Thank You! (y)

I really don't have a problem with this set. True, you do have to turn it up a bit, so what.
I espically like the mix on Sahara of Snow. There is a lot going on in 5.1 . I'm very satisfied.


PS: As others have stated, In the Land of Grey and Pink is Dolby too, but it sounds fine to me. Sure it would have been ideal to get these sets in high resolution, but I'm OK with what' been released. Better than not having this music in surround at all
 

kap'n krunch

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
7,501
Location
estados hundidos
Thank You! (y)

I really don't have a problem with this set. True, you do have to turn it up a bit, so what.
I espically like the mix on Sahara of Snow. There is a lot going on in 5.1 . I'm very satisfied.


PS: As others have stated, In the Land of Grey and Pink is Dolby too, but it sounds fine to me. Sure it would have been ideal to get these sets in high resolution, but I'm OK with what' been released. Better than not having this music in surround at all
I know it's totally 180º, but , if we're talking about Dullbee MCH mixes, I've said repeatedly that Julieta Venegas' "Limón y Sal" (especially if you get the LEGIT Argentinian version which is a CD+DVD, not the US Dual Disc version) sounds REALLY GOOD to my ears!!!!
 

bangdrum6

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
42
apparently the Bill Bruford facebook page is filtering out the negative comments. Ive read some a few days ago ,now they are gone:howl
 
Top