Bill Nelson’s Red Noise: Art/Empire/Industry – The Complete Red Noise Box Set (5.1 surround mix of "Sound on Sound")

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DuncanS

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I've just spent part of this morning going over this reported issue.

I have 2 players that can play DVD's:

A Sony X800M2
And a Cambridge Audio Azur 752BD

There is a slight hum when the DVD's are played in either player, with the Marantz AVR on mute.
I tried various other DVD's with no issue in playback.

I would never have known about this, as when the music is played, I cannot hear the hum.

I do not think my problem is anything like what is being reported and as it hasn't affected my enjoyment, I will keep this copy.

I hope everybody else gets their issue sorted promptly.

PS: Once I've ripped the DVD's, the physical discs will join the ever-increasing library!! And gather dust for all eternity. :)

Update: I've just ripped the DVD in my PC's DVD player and what a racket!! I thought it was going to break the PC!!

This copy is going back....grrr
I did the same a week or so ago, I thought my external drive was going to leap off the table, I never thought it was the discs, so I stuck the discs in again today, and :eek:!
 

CraigVC

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I'm very disappointed in the usage of DVD-Audio logo on this box set, when in fact I discovered that the discs are authored as DVD-Video spec.

I'm not against DVD-Video discs for surround sound audio. I have all of the Jethro Tull box sets, for example, and how they do it is how I recommended Cherry Red & Esoteric do it.

I have the 2021 Jethro Tull A La Mode box set next to me right now, and it has the DVD-Video logo on the back, to accurately represent the three DVDs contained within. DVD ONE is also very transparently described on the back as well:

DVD ONE (Audio Only)
Contains Steven Wilson's 2020 remix of the album, and 5 associated tracks (3 in surround), in DTS and Dolby AC3 5.1 surround and stereo 96/24 LPCM and flat transfer of the original LP master in 96/24 LPCM.

That's very clear and unambigious. Please use that as your example, and do the same, Cherry Red & Esoteric!

Beyond that complaint, I'm also disappointed in the sound quality of the discs. They sound very bright to me, to the point that I could not listen to them more than 10-15 minutes. I quickly put some other surround discs into my system, worried that something had gone wrong with my setup, but fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on perspective) the brightness and harshness seemed isolated to just this box set's discs.

Since I have never heard this music before buying this box set (these deluxe editions are great opportunities to hear something from the past I've never heard before), my hypothesis then turned to "well, maybe this album was just really poorly recorded on shoddy equipment?"

I quickly ordered an original pressing of the vinyl LP of this album, and happily it sounds so much better than the music of this box set. So I know this album was recording well enough, and was mastered/cut well (by Wally Traugott, in the case of the original LP).

That leaves me to conclude that this box set is not mixed or mastered to my liking, compared to other surround sound titles in my collection (of which I have hundreds).

Finally, I did hear the rumbling of the discs in my Oppo 105D player that others are complaining about on this thread.

Last time I remember experiencing that disc warping problem that is suspected, was with the Richard & Linda Thompson CD box set from a few years ago. That box set used similar cutout slots to hold the discs, and as best everyone could piece together through investigation, there was some sort of issue after the discs were put into the slots in which weight(?) pressed discs against the unevenness created by the slots, thus warping them. I was among those who stacked the discs for a photo, which clearly showed how warped they all were. In the case of Richard & Linda Thompson box set, an entire new run of discs were manufactured, they were placed in much more secure "clamshell" cases, then mailed out to everyone who requested replacements.
 

Clement

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I'm very disappointed in the usage of DVD-Audio logo on this box set, when in fact I discovered that the discs are authored as DVD-Video spec.

I'm not against DVD-Video discs for surround sound audio. I have all of the Jethro Tull box sets, for example, and how they do it is how I recommended Cherry Red & Esoteric do it.

I have the 2021 Jethro Tull A La Mode box set next to me right now, and it has the DVD-Video logo on the back, to accurately represent the three DVDs contained within. DVD ONE is also very transparently described on the back as well:



That's very clear and unambigious. Please use that as your example, and do the same, Cherry Red & Esoteric!

Beyond that complaint, I'm also disappointed in the sound quality of the discs. They sound very bright to me, to the point that I could not listen to them more than 10-15 minutes. I quickly put some other surround discs into my system, worried that something had gone wrong with my setup, but fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on perspective) the brightness and harshness seemed isolated to just this box set's discs.

Since I have never heard this music before buying this box set (these deluxe editions are great opportunities to hear something from the past I've never heard before), my hypothesis then turned to "well, maybe this album was just really poorly recorded on shoddy equipment?"

I quickly ordered an original pressing of the vinyl LP of this album, and happily it sounds so much better than the music of this box set. So I know this album was recording well enough, and was mastered/cut well (by Wally Traugott, in the case of the original LP).

That leaves me to conclude that this box set is not mixed or mastered to my liking, compared to other surround sound titles in my collection (of which I have hundreds).

Finally, I did hear the rumbling of the discs in my Oppo 105D player that others are complaining about on this thread.

Last time I remember experiencing that disc warping problem that is suspected, was with the Richard & Linda Thompson CD box set from a few years ago. That box set used similar cutout slots to hold the discs, and as best everyone could piece together through investigation, there was some sort of issue after the discs were put into the slots in which weight(?) pressed discs against the unevenness created by the slots, thus warping them. I was among those who stacked the discs for a photo, which clearly showed how warped they all were. In the case of Richard & Linda Thompson box set, an entire new run of discs were manufactured, they were placed in much more secure "clamshell" cases, then mailed out to everyone who requested replacements.
Great opening salvo! Welcome to QQ! I look forward to future posts from you. Stay Surrounded, Comrade!
 

Mistee

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Oct 14, 2014
Messages
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I'm very disappointed in the usage of DVD-Audio logo on this box set, when in fact I discovered that the discs are authored as DVD-Video spec.

I'm not against DVD-Video discs for surround sound audio. I have all of the Jethro Tull box sets, for example, and how they do it is how I recommended Cherry Red & Esoteric do it.

I have the 2021 Jethro Tull A La Mode box set next to me right now, and it has the DVD-Video logo on the back, to accurately represent the three DVDs contained within. DVD ONE is also very transparently described on the back as well:



That's very clear and unambigious. Please use that as your example, and do the same, Cherry Red & Esoteric!

Beyond that complaint, I'm also disappointed in the sound quality of the discs. They sound very bright to me, to the point that I could not listen to them more than 10-15 minutes. I quickly put some other surround discs into my system, worried that something had gone wrong with my setup, but fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on perspective) the brightness and harshness seemed isolated to just this box set's discs.

Since I have never heard this music before buying this box set (these deluxe editions are great opportunities to hear something from the past I've never heard before), my hypothesis then turned to "well, maybe this album was just really poorly recorded on shoddy equipment?"

I quickly ordered an original pressing of the vinyl LP of this album, and happily it sounds so much better than the music of this box set. So I know this album was recording well enough, and was mastered/cut well (by Wally Traugott, in the case of the original LP).

That leaves me to conclude that this box set is not mixed or mastered to my liking, compared to other surround sound titles in my collection (of which I have hundreds).

Finally, I did hear the rumbling of the discs in my Oppo 105D player that others are complaining about on this thread.

Last time I remember experiencing that disc warping problem that is suspected, was with the Richard & Linda Thompson CD box set from a few years ago. That box set used similar cutout slots to hold the discs, and as best everyone could piece together through investigation, there was some sort of issue after the discs were put into the slots in which weight(?) pressed discs against the unevenness created by the slots, thus warping them. I was among those who stacked the discs for a photo, which clearly showed how warped they all were. In the case of Richard & Linda Thompson box set, an entire new run of discs were manufactured, they were placed in much more secure "clamshell" cases, then mailed out to everyone who requested replacements.

'Since I have never heard this music before buying this box set (these deluxe editions are great opportunities to hear something from the past I've never heard before)'

I know that's an aside, obviously, but I'd like to comment on it anyway: yes, this is exactly the kind of box sets I most love. Reissues of highly regarded albums that I don't know (or know all that well). For me, that has been the case with The Beatles box sets. :)

Also feel more hopeful that we may get replacement discs. given your recount of the Richard & Linda Thompson CD box set. I've ceased playing the Red Noise DVDs, though I love the content, for fear they're wrecking my player. [My 201th comment. :giggle:]
 

CraigVC

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'Since I have never heard this music before buying this box set (these deluxe editions are great opportunities to hear something from the past I've never heard before)'

I know that's an aside, obviously, but I'd like to comment on it anyway: yes, this is exactly the kind of box sets I most love. Reissues of highly regarded albums that I don't know (or know all that well). For me, that has been the case with The Beatles box sets. :)

Also feel more hopeful that we may get replacement discs. given your recount of the Richard & Linda Thompson CD box set. I've ceased playing the Red Noise DVDs, though I love the content, for fear they're wrecking my player. [My 201th comment. :giggle:]
Yes, definitely. As a package (thick outer sleeve, booklet, postcards, tour program, poster), it's obviously a labor of love, and a great introduction to music that I've never heard before.

Initially, I felt really bummed after getting the box set, due to all the issues I described up-thread. But I could tell from the first three tracks (as far as I got before the bright/harsh sound quality got too much for my ears to bear) that it was worth seeking out in other formats.

As soon as I saw on Discogs that the LP was originally cut by Wally Traugott, I figured I was unlikely to hear it in better quality. Hearing the LP - which was so easy to listen all the way through, much more appealing tonally - finally got me into the music.

So now I consider the $80 total I've invested for box set + original vinyl LP to be fair overall, when I treat it as a great-sounding vinyl LP plus a lot of words and photos the help me get deeper into the music.
 

yawitz

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...
Also feel more hopeful that we may get replacement discs. given your recount of the Richard & Linda Thompson CD box set....
The Richard & Linda Thompson CD box set was from UMC (a label with significant resources), while this Red Noise set is from an indie label. While I have hopes that replacements will be made available, I'm not assuming that the response would be the same.
 

Mistee

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Yes of course, no assumptions. I'm pretty sure no one commenting has been so confident as to assume there will be replacements. We can all only hope.

However, indie label or not, surely they would prefer not to tarnish their name by selling dodgy DVDs and then not replacing them? I've been so loving this series, but if there are any more releases in it, I don't think I'll be alone in cautiously holding off until it's established the new DVDs play properly. OTOH, if this is the end of the series, what a shame for it to end this way, after the indie label has been doing so excellently well. :(
 

The Rang

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I was told they were making a list of names/e-mails of affected customers and are in discussions with the disc manufacturer.
When I asked if I should return the set to Amazon it was suggested I do not do so,
the implication being (in my mind anyway) that a resolution may be coming.
At this point we each have to make our own decision on whether or not we believe that will happen.
My gut reaction is to wait.
 

Mistee

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I was told they were making a list of names/e-mails of affected customers and are in discussions with the disc manufacturer.
When I asked if I should return the set to Amazon it was suggested I do not do so,
the implication being (in my mind anyway) that a resolution may be coming.
At this point we each have to make our own decision on whether or not we believe that will happen.
My gut reaction is to wait.

Thanks for this update. Do you know who to contact so others can also contact them and be on the list? Or perhaps this question is too early/preemptive. Just that you mentioned a list...
 

yawitz

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I started by sending an email to [email protected]

Got a a quick response to that first email and the two or three I’ve sent since
Good to hear about your experience. I had first contacted Cherry Red, with no response. Esoteric replied quickly, and confirmed reports of the issue (and an intent to address the problem). I assume Vicky Powell has been monitoring this on the Esoteric side; one of the replies I got was from her. So I'm hopeful this will be addressed.
 
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The Rang

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It’s Vicky who has been responding to me, didn’t realize she was the label owner.
Quite pleased with her communication thus far

And, DVD problems aside, it’s another great set from Esoteric. I’ve played the CDs and it’s an excellent album.
The live show from Leicester is great too.
 

Progfiend

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I started by sending an email to [email protected]

Got a a quick response to that first email and the two or three I’ve sent since
Thanks for this. I had contacted Burning Shed directly, as that is where I purchased the box. Burning Shed was fantastic. Once I sent them a video showing how the discs vibrated in the player, they sent me replacement discs right away. I received them yesterday and, sadly, they also vibrate in the player. I have now sent the email directly to Esoteric. Here's hoping they can fix the problem.
 

Mistee

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I sent the above esoteric address a friendly email on something like 3 Oct. letting them know how much I was enjoying this series and explaining the particular issue I was experiencing with this Red Noise set. I added that through a forum I was aware of others who were also reporting the same problem. Unfortunately I have yet to receive a response.
 

yawitz

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UPDATE: Finally got a reply to the first email I'd sent (to Cherry Red, not Vicky at Esoteric). They offered to send replacements after sending proof of purchase (which I've done). But I also asked if these will be from a different/remanufactured batch (since others here have reported replacements that suffered from the same issue).

No direct update from Esoteric yet, so I'm not sure if this is the promised fix for the more widespread problem.
 

yawitz

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UPDATE: Finally got a reply to the first email I'd sent (to Cherry Red, not Vicky at Esoteric). They offered to send replacements after sending proof of purchase (which I've done). But I also asked if these will be from a different/remanufactured batch (since others here have reported replacements that suffered from the same issue).

No direct update from Esoteric yet, so I'm not sure if this is the promised fix for the more widespread problem.
Heard back from Cherry Red, with good news! In reply to my question:
Thank you for confirming. These are from a new repress which should now have addressed the issue.
Will report back once I get the replacements.
 

yawitz

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Good news! I received replacements from Cherry Red yesterday (mailed to a US address), and can confirm they've fixed the problem--no excess rumbling or vibration can be heard. So for me, the issue is resolved, and I can just enjoy the set without distraction...
 

The56Kid

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Good news! I received replacements from Cherry Red yesterday (mailed to a US address), and can confirm they've fixed the problem--no excess rumbling or vibration can be heard. So for me, the issue is resolved, and I can just enjoy the set without distraction...
Good to hear that Cherry Red recognizes that a problem exists and are willing to do a repress to address the problem. What about the folks that made the purchase from a vendor other than Cherry Red (Amazon US in my case)?
 

yawitz

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Good to hear that Cherry Red recognizes that a problem exists and are willing to do a repress to address the problem. What about the folks that made the purchase from a vendor other than Cherry Red (Amazon US in my case)?
I purchased mine from ImportCDs, and first contacted them to arrange a return, but once I saw (in this thread and elsewhere) wider reports of problems, I assumed a replacement would have the same issues and held on to the set. I then reached out to both Cherry Red and Esoteric to report the problem and ask about replacement discs. I'm not sure which of them acted on my email, but assume they coordinated their response; it was Cherry Red that got back to me and offered the replacements once I sent proof-of-purchase (as mentioned earlier in this thread).
 
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