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Black Jazz catalog finally available on CD!

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humprof

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Reviving this thread to see if anyone can confirm whether the first six titles in the Black Jazz catalog are in fact QS-encoded. (It seems pretty clear that most of the subsequent ones are, except for a couple at the tail end of the label's run.)

All the jacket photos and most of the catalog numbers I've been able to find on the web list them as BJ/1 through BJ/6, and the album jackets do not sport the QS logo or make any mention of quad compatibility. (Subsequent titles, numbered BJQD/7 forward, do feature the QS logo.) The 2005 P-Vine and 2012-13 Snow Dog CD reissues seem to replicate the LP jackets, so that's no help.

Ovation's ad in this August 1973 issue of Billboard (page 41), touting their commitment to QS, lists the entire Black Jazz run up to that point--1 through 16--and gives all of them BJQD prefixes. But the first six titles were actually first released in 1971, which would have been the dawn of the QS era, no? An online Walter Bishop Jr. discography claims that Coral Keys was issued as both BJ/2 (stereo) and BJQD/2 (quad-compatible)--which suggests, perhaps, that Black Jazz 1 through 6 were initially released in stereo, then later "upgraded" to quad. But again, I've yet to see any physical evidence of the latter.
 
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humprof

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Mark Anderson

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Thanks for that link. Interesting that the label claims quad-compatible stereo, but not the jacket. Maybe the first six Black Jazz titles (from 1971) were early experiments with "Regular Matrix" technology, before they decided to pay Sansui to use the QS logo?
I think in the case of infant eyes that during a repress they grabbed the wrong label and the 1st six titles are stereo only
 

humprof

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I think in the case of infant eyes that during a repress they grabbed the wrong label and the 1st six titles are stereo only
Interesting. That would still leave Dick Schory's (possibly erroneous) claim in Billboard to account for.

If the first six do (or did once) exist in separate stereo and QS versions, then I wonder which masters were made available to P-Vine and Snow Dog for their CD reissues? A Sansui or SurroundMaster might make it sound good regardless, but is there a definitive way of telling whether a stereo signal is QS-encoded through waveform analysis?
 

Mark Anderson

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Interesting. That would still leave Dick Schory's (possibly erroneous) claim in Billboard to account for.

If the first six do (or did once) exist in separate stereo and QS versions, then I wonder which masters were made available to P-Vine and Snow Dog for their CD reissues? A Sansui or SurroundMaster might make it sound good regardless, but is there a definitive way of telling whether a stereo signal is QS-encoded through waveform analysis?
I have seen many erroneous claims in billboard about quad. Before you go down the rabbit hole, see if you can find any originally in quad. You will not. 1 thru 6 were too early and not remixed.
 

jaybird100

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Thanks for that link. Interesting that the label claims quad-compatible stereo, but not the jacket. Maybe the first six Black Jazz titles (from 1971) were early experiments with "Regular Matrix" technology, before they decided to pay Sansui to use the QS logo?
The earlier ones used the EV Stereo-4 matrix. The label went QS along with parent label Ovation.
 

humprof

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The earlier ones used the EV Stereo-4 matrix. The label went QS along with parent label Ovation.
I have early CD reissues of a couple of the first six Black Jazz titles, and there's language on the tray card about them having been recorded "direct to two-track analogue tape." (Wikipedia says that EV-4 could produce good "pseudo 4-channel effects," though.)
 

jaybird100

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I have early CD reissues of a couple of the first six Black Jazz titles, and there's language on the tray card about them having been recorded "direct to two-track analogue tape." (Wikipedia says that EV-4 could produce good "pseudo 4-channel effects," though.)
The EV-4 decoder was what they were referring to, producing good "pseudo quad" effects from stereo. The matrix itself was similar, but not identical, to Regular Matrix.
 

humprof

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The EV-4 decoder was what they were referring to, producing good "pseudo quad" effects from stereo. The matrix itself was similar, but not identical, to Regular Matrix.
I get you. I was just imagining that those titles might sound good when played through an EV-4 decoder--much as they do when played through the SurroundMaster in "Involve" mode. But do we know that any of them were ever actually encoded in EV-4? (Mark concludes no.) If they were indeed recorded direct to two-track in the studio, I don't know how that would work.
 

fizzywiggs41

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I get you. I was just imagining that those titles might sound good when played through an EV-4 decoder--much as they do when played through the SurroundMaster in "Involve" mode. But do we know that any of them were ever actually encoded in EV-4? (Mark concludes no.) If they were indeed recorded direct to two-track in the studio, I don't know how that would work.

Larry Clifton's listings predate Anderson's and yes no Black Jazz titles use QS . The Quadraphonic Discography has incorporated Larry's listed btw.

EV-V decoding should give you something kinda close though Humprof. And the SM Involve should be QS accurate.

On a separate note the guys at Surround Master uncovered a Talking Heads Best of album that utilized QS encoding.
I can't remember the exact title name , but now I'd love to get ahold of one to try , preferably in CD .
 

J. PUPSTER

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Larry Clifton's listings predate Anderson's and yes no Black Jazz titles use QS . The Quadraphonic Discography has incorporated Larry's listed btw.

EV-V decoding should give you something kinda close though Humprof. And the SM Involve should be QS accurate.

On a separate note the guys at Surround Master uncovered a Talking Heads Best of album that utilized QS encoding.
I can't remember the exact title name , but now I'd love to get ahold of one to try , preferably in CD .
I put the song “Popsicle” ( on the “Sand in the Vaseline” hits 2-CD set) through the SMv2 & Penteo and it sounds excellent! Don’t think that track is on the Surround Box set.
 

humprof

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There's a story in today's Times about a new anthology of Washington, DC's Black Fire Records, co-founded by Jimmy Gray, who was briefly a promoter for Black Jazz. Black Fire had no quad releases, AFAIK--their first record was in 1975--but it sounds like fans of Black Jazz would dig this label, too.

 

humprof

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I've already lost track of where someone (who?) posted a story about the dispute over the latest round of Black Jazz reissues by Real Gone records, supposedly still slated to begin this month. Anyway, here's another story, published today, from NPR Music:

Edit: here's the thread I was trying to find, started by @quadtrade :

Sixteen of the original twenty Black Jazz titles were quad, with a handful released on QR as well as LP. Unfortunately for us surround-o-philes, the Real Gone reissues are being touted as "remastered," which means that unlike previous reissues, the QS encoding will be gone. (Right?)
 
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Simon A

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I've already lost track of where someone (who?) posted a story about the dispute over the latest round of Black Jazz reissues by Real Gone records, supposedly still slated to begin this month. Anyway, here's another story, published today, from NPR Music:

Edit: here's the thread I was trying to find, started by @quadtrade :

Sixteen of the original twenty Black Jazz titles were quad, with a handful released on QR as well as LP. Unfortunately for us surround-o-philes, the Real Gone reissues are being touted as "remastered," which means that unlike previous reissues, the QS encoding will be gone. (Right?)
The Real Gone artwork for these releases has the Quadraphonic mention purposely removed so that's quite possible.
 

4-earredwonder

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I've already lost track of where someone (who?) posted a story about the dispute over the latest round of Black Jazz reissues by Real Gone records, supposedly still slated to begin this month. Anyway, here's another story, published today, from NPR Music:

Edit: here's the thread I was trying to find, started by @quadtrade :

Sixteen of the original twenty Black Jazz titles were quad, with a handful released on QR as well as LP. Unfortunately for us surround-o-philes, the Real Gone reissues are being touted as "remastered," which means that unlike previous reissues, the QS encoding will be gone. (Right?)
Humprof, if the Black Jazz masters retain the QS encoding then I wouldn't rule out loss of QS encoding.

I managed to pick up about 10 Black Jazz QS encoded RBCDs a few years ago when ImportCD was blowing them out for under $12 each.....And ALL were pressed in Japan with their respective obis.

What a FANTASTIC label.

Although NOT QS encoded, this taste of Black Jazz via DJ Gilles Peterson is a MUST:

 

quadaholic

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The Real Gone artwork for these releases has the Quadraphonic mention purposely removed so that's quite possible.
I've already lost track of where someone (who?) posted a story about the dispute over the latest round of Black Jazz reissues by Real Gone records, supposedly still slated to begin this month. Anyway, here's another story, published today, from NPR Music:

Edit: here's the thread I was trying to find, started by @quadtrade :

Sixteen of the original twenty Black Jazz titles were quad, with a handful released on QR as well as LP. Unfortunately for us surround-o-philes, the Real Gone reissues are being touted as "remastered," which means that unlike previous reissues, the QS encoding will be gone. (Right?)
"Remastering" is such a vague term these days, who knows what was done to the sources. If they did in fact use encoded masters, looking at the files on a computer would probably be the best way to see what's on there. Doing a test decode might also help, although QS decodes of plain old stereo files sounds pretty cool at times. I've mad that mistake before. If someone wanted to take some snippets and forward them I could take a look and let you know what I "see".
 

fizzywiggs41

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"Remastering" is such a vague term these days, who knows what was done to the sources. If they did in fact use encoded masters, looking at the files on a computer would probably be the best way to see what's on there. Doing a test decode might also help, although QS decodes of plain old stereo files sounds pretty cool at times. I've mad that mistake before. If someone wanted to take some snippets and forward them I could take a look and let you know what I "see".
That's correct.

And we must remember that "remastered " is not "remixing "
 
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