Can Dynaquad be decoded in Adobe Audition?

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jdmack

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Hello,

I was alerted today that the self-titled album by The Flame is available at cduniverse.com. This was one of those few albums that was mixed specfically to take advatage of the Dynaquad effect. There was never a regular stereo version of this album released, so I am presuming that with the right decoder, the Dynaquad effect can be extracted from the CD. I have read about how to wire up one's speakers to do this, but is there a way extract separate audio tracks in an audio program such as Adobe Audition? Then I could burn this to a DTS CD using Surcode.

J. D.
 
Don't most of us just treat dynaquad as a Qs release?

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried using a QS decoding script on "Student Demonstration Time from "Surf's Up" by The Beach Boys. The end result was interesting, but not Dynaquad I don't think. The information that ended up in the rear channels was stereo, with instruments panned left and right.

J. D.
 
actually I seem to recall someone posting some photos here of an Ev Encoder that was once on ebay... so perhaps there is something different about it...
then again finding exact information on it's parameters might be tough..

it would be nice to find a script that could decode surfs up exactly as intended...whatever that was....in the meantime i guess I'll just stick to qs
and variomatrix
 
My understanding is that Dynaquad mixes were done with the Hafler setup in mind. If I'm reading this correctly, all that would be required is to extract the out-of-phase information. Does any here know how to do this in Audition?

...or I might just be wrong about how Dynaquad works :rolleyes:

I'm still pretty new to the world of quad.
 
Here is the decoding information for SQ QS EV and Dynaco.
For those with EV encoded lp's simply reverse left and right into the decoder, then reverse again on the outputs, Voila! EV decoded. This makes it simple to decode EV with the SQ script, simply reverse channels before running the script, then again after it has run.
I would be interested to find out how well EV lp's decode.

Cheers

Malclolm
 

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I finally gave up on all of this, and bid and won a QD-1 Quadaptor on eBay, which should arrive sometime this week. I'm going to cut the ends off of six RCA cables, strip the cables, and then pass my Dynaquad recordings through this box on the way to a four-input sound card. But thank you again to everyone who took the time to address my question!

J. D.
 
I finally gave up on all of this, and bid and won a QD-1 Quadaptor on eBay, which should arrive sometime this week. I'm going to cut the ends off of six RCA cables, strip the cables, and then pass my Dynaquad recordings through this box on the way to a four-input sound card. But thank you again to everyone who took the time to address my question!

J. D.

Well, I hooked up my QD-1 as described above, ran the outputs to my four-input soundcard, fired up Audition and tested it. The only difference between the front and rear outputs was that the left and right channels were reversed. Also, the rear channel level knob has no effect on the rear channel output level. I have a feeling that this kit may have not been built correctly, but I would have no idea what to look for if I opened it. I checked the polarity of my wires several times, and they seem right. Now I'm going to insert an angry emoticon.:mad: There, you see how mad I am?

J. D.
 
OK, last question about the QD-1 (famous last words, eh?). Should it matter whether the signal being fed into the QD-1 is an amplified speaker signal verses a line level signal from a CD player? The phase reversal would happen in either case, right?

J. D.
 
Well, I hooked up my QD-1 as described above, ran the outputs to my four-input soundcard, fired up Audition and tested it. The only difference between the front and rear outputs was that the left and right channels were reversed. Also, the rear channel level knob has no effect on the rear channel output level. I have a feeling that this kit may have not been built correctly, but I would have no idea what to look for if I opened it. I checked the polarity of my wires several times, and they seem right. Now I'm going to insert an angry emoticon.:mad: There, you see how mad I am?

J. D.


That Dynaco adapter is calculated to use the impedance of the speakers in the mathematics of the decoding process, that's why it didn't work. You'd have to use 8 ohm transformers or something on the outputs to make it work. Len Feldman's book contains all the encoding/decoding formulas for EV, Dynaco, QS, SQ, and finally EV's 'universal decoder'.
 
For fun tonight, I took "Surf's Up" and decoded it using the QS script in AA 2.0. The results were... well, underwhelming, but did have a certain pleasing ambience. From reading this thread, it seems that you cannot decode Dynaquad in AA, then? Dylan, did you ever manage to come up with anything?
 
Just checking...anyone ever get an answer to this question? Seems like Malcolm back in 2006 had posted a "how to", has it been tried? I have seen that the Beach Boys and Flame LPs have been converted but seemingly always as QS, which they were not intended to be. I have all the albums (including Carl & The Passions which I am assuming was DY also) and would like to have DTS copies as they were intended to be heard, if possible. The whole "EV versus DY"..versus all the other formats is quite confusing. :confused: John S.
 
Looks like EV and SQ are rear-phase opposites of one another---SQ being phase heavy on the left (Delta quadrant) and EV being phase-heavy on the right (Gamma quadrant). It also appears as if QS is all phased in the Alpha and Beta quadrant and DY's rear channels are all phased in the Gamma and Delta quadrant. Meaning the left of SQ and the right of EV could presumably be used for discrete DY decoding as they appear to be fairly close. But then it's been 30 years since my engineering trig and geometry.
 
Here's a script for Audition 2.0.
I tried it with a sample disc I have and it works very good, there's no "logic" improvement and it really does its job. It works in F:\DY dyrectory and opens two .wav files called front and rear as the other SQ/QS scripts do

Just change F:\DY with your working directory
 

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So all you physics people out there tell me if this is an accurate description:

All matrices have the rear-center at 90-degrees out left.

SQ’s left rear is 67.5 degrees out left and the right rear at 112.5 degrees out left, i.e. 22.5 degrees left and right of 90 degrees left.

Sansui’s QS left-rear is 67.5 degrees out left and its’ right rear is 67.5 degrees out right.

Dynaco’s left rear and SQ’s left rear are the same: 112.5 degrees out left, but Dynaco’s left rear is 112.5 degrees out right.

EV-4’s right rear is at 67.5 degrees out right and it’s left-rear is at 112.5 degrees out right.

EV appears to be a rear-phase mirror image of SQ being 67.5 and 112.5 degrees out right vs SQ being all on the left.

So technically you could have about 17 channels in there, yes?

1. The normal front pair.
2. 22.5 degrees out left and right.
3. 45 degrees out left and right.
4. 67.5 degrees out left and right.
5. 90 degrees out left and right.
6. 112.5 degrees out left and right.
7. 135 degrees out left and right.
8. 157.5 degrees out left and right
9. 180 out (rear center - London box?).

How close in phase can matrices come without confusing their steering circuits?
I seem to recall sometime in the early 70's, somebody was trying to get ten or twelve channels into one matrix.
Dunno if they ever made it or not.

When I pre-encode material for surround, I use a simple 90-degrees out left and right for the rear channels,
which most matrix people so far have been able to play with fairly satisfactory results.

So let's hear some votes from some physics and engineering and math guys.

1. Leave 90-90 and continue on as I have.
2. Move to another equal phase out (67.5 plus and minus, 112.5 plus and minus, 135 plus and minus, etc) and if so which phase?

No I am not going to try and memorize which matrices are using which combinations of phaseouts.
Just looking for a second or third choice where most people will be able to play most encodings off CD.

Although one fellow told me I should try a 7.1 by encoding the side channels i.e taking the dry tracks-only (minus lead) mix
on 67.5 and the rear channels i.e the distant-mic angles and whatever form of reverb I wanted on 112.5, and then placing these weird spinning effects he wanted alternately on 22.5, left, 157.5 right, 157.5 left and 22.5 right and see what I got.

Dunno how that's going to turn out.

And....

Can one side of the SQ script for EV-4 and one side of the QS script be used for DY and just reverse the rear channels,
or does somebody need to write a real DY and EV-4 decoding script?
 
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