Can I play these particular audio-only Atmos files?

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ergalthema

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I have a Sony UBP-X800. I have some M2TS files on a USB drive that playback in Atmos.

A friend of a friend took some kind of audio course and made an Atmos mix. He shared two files - a .wav file that's 1.6GB and 52-channels (according to MediaInfo) and a 63MB file that ends in .bin.wav. I figured the smaller file was metadata.

When I tried to play them, it said they were unrecognizable.

Anyone know if I can use these files somehow in a way that I can listen with the UBP-X800? Maybe I could use something to convert them to a M2TS with blank video or something?
 

ergalthema

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This probably basically answers my question:

You can *not* playback an ADM BWAV on consumer equipment like a Home theatre AVR or a soundbars. If that´s what you´re lookng for, you can in Dolby Atmos Renderer go to File --> Export Audio --> MP4, to create an Atmos file that can be played back on consumer equipment.​

Looks like there's a free trial, but not sure I'll want to deal with installing it myself just for this.
 

ergalthema

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Well, I went through the hassle of installing the "Dolby Atmos Conversion Tool". I dragged the 52-channel wav file into it and it appeared to convert it successfully. It created four files - .atmos, .atmos.audio, .atmos.dbmd,, and atmos.metadata.

When I tried to navigate to them in the Sony UBP-X800, it said "No playable file in this category"...

One thing that seemed odd - the Dolby tool did not seem to care about the .bin.wav file that I was given with the 52-channel wav. I assume that the .bin.wav file is metadata necessary for the Atmos conversion.

Any help here?
 

sjcorne

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The tool you're looking for is the Dolby Media Encoder, it takes ADM as the input and will output either lossy Dolby AC-4 (which can be embedded in an MP4 file) or lossless Dolby TrueHD (which can be embedded into an MKV file).
 

ergalthema

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The tool you're looking for is the Dolby Media Encoder, it takes ADM as the input and will output either lossy Dolby AC-4 (which can be embedded in an MP4 file) or lossless Dolby TrueHD (which can be embedded into an MKV file).
The website says "Access to this professional software requires that your company has a valid sales order contract. " So, I guess I'm out of luck?
 

zeerround

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The problem you are having is that your friend didn’t finish the process. He stopped before the actual atmos encoding, so you have all the stuff necessary to use the professional atmos encoder, but not anything that can be played back on consumer gear. Another way to say it is the mix has been rendered for atmos but not yet enocoded with atmos.

What you have is what a producer would hand off to a streaming service or Blu-ray authoring service, where they do their own encoding.

By the way after encoding it still needs to be muxed with some video, to really be playable. The atmos needs to be combined with a Dolby digital version of the mix, as well.
 

zeerround

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It's possible to embed 9.1 or 11.1 Auro-3D in a 5.1/7.1 FLAC file.
Not to my knowledge. What encoding scheme are you referring to? Are you talking about extracting the 5.1 Dolby ac3 part of an encoded atmos mp4, mov etc. that would just be a 5.1 Downmix.
 

AYanguas

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It's possible to embed 9.1 or 11.1 Auro-3D in a 5.1/7.1 FLAC file.
Not to my knowledge. What encoding scheme are you referring to? Are you talking about extracting the 5.1 Dolby ac3 part of an encoded atmos mp4, mov etc. that would just be a 5.1 Downmix.
Normally, Auro-3D is embedded in a DTS track on Blu-Ray. (Maybe always in DTS-HD MA).

But, according to the link below, it is possible to embed it in FLAC 5.1:

Auro-3D files (embedded in 5.1 FLAC)

I haven't tested it yet.
 

ar surround

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Already thought of:
Thanks. So it seems that Atmos can be accessed via MP4 as well as MKV? But I see Auro 3D titles as FLAC. So I guess one would play these files from an Oppo via HDMI…same as the Atmos MKV and MP4 files?
 

sjcorne

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So it seems that Atmos can be accessed via MP4 as well as MKV?
Atmos MP4 = E-AC3 (Dolby Digital Plus) @768 kbps (same as streaming)
Atmos MKV = 48/24 MLP (Dolby TrueHD) (same as Blu-Ray disc)

Most content creators seem to think that MP4 is the only downloadable option for Atmos, even though the Dolby Media Encoder offers TrueHD (.MLP) as an output option. Expect much of the lossy MP4 Atmos content on the site to be updated to lossless MKV over the next few weeks.
But I see Auro 3D titles as FLAC. So I guess one would play these files from an Oppo via HDMI…same as the Atmos MKV and MP4 files?
I haven't been able to try this myself as I don't have an Auro-capable AVR, but others have reported that's how it works. Otherwise, they default to 5.1 or 7.1 FLAC.
 

J. PUPSTER

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Atmos MP4 = E-AC3 (Dolby Digital Plus) @768 kbps (same as streaming)
Atmos MKV = 48/24 MLP (Dolby TrueHD) (same as Blu-Ray disc)

Most content creators seem to think that MP4 is the only downloadable option for Atmos, even though the Dolby Media Encoder offers TrueHD (.MLP) as an output option. Expect much of the lossy MP4 Atmos content on the site to be updated to lossless MKV over the next few weeks.

I haven't been able to try this myself as I don't have an Auro-capable AVR, but others have reported that's how it works. Otherwise, they default to 5.1 or 7.1 FLAC.
Sorry we're getting off subject, but I thought flac was limited to 8 channels, which wouldn't hold the height information for Auro-3D? So are they saying you get the whole mix, down-mixed into the base 7.1; or somehow decoded with full height information?
 
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sjcorne

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Sorry we're getting off subject, but I thought flac was limited to 8 channels, which wouldn't hold the height information for Auro-3D? So are they saying you get the whole mix, down-mixed into the base 7.1; or somehow decoded with full height information?
I'd imagine the Auro-3D metadata/bitstream is embedded in the FLAC file and sent over HDMI to the AVR for decoding, similar to how the object metadata in a TrueHD/Atmos file is only fully unlocked with an AVR at the other end. If there's no object decoder on the other side, the metadata containing height positions is ignored and you get 7.1 playback only.
 

J. PUPSTER

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I'd imagine the Auro-3D metadata/bitstream is embedded in the FLAC file and sent over HDMI to the AVR for decoding, similar to how the object metadata in a TrueHD/Atmos file is only fully unlocked with an AVR at the other end. If there's no object decoder on the other side, the metadata containing height positions is ignored and you get 7.1 playback only.
I guess I need some additional educating on what a FLAC file is able to carry; I know it'll embed metadata for album info like you'd see in Foobar2000 and album cover photos, but I didn't know it could embed what must be Object Oriented mix information (and the right AVR ability to read the flac files.)
Could 360 Reality Audio be next?
 

LuvMyQuad

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I'd imagine the Auro-3D metadata/bitstream is embedded in the FLAC file and sent over HDMI to the AVR for decoding, similar to how the object metadata in a TrueHD/Atmos file is only fully unlocked with an AVR at the other end. If there's no object decoder on the other side, the metadata containing height positions is ignored and you get 7.1 playback only.
I am not aware of FLAC being capable of carrying metadata at all. If it could, wouldn't it be capable of carrying Atmos metadata as well? But it cant.
 

sjcorne

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I am not aware of FLAC being capable of carrying metadata at all. If it could, wouldn't it be capable of carrying Atmos metadata as well? But it cant.
I'd love to be able to verify it works, but $3000 for a Auro-capable AVR like the Yamaha Aventage RX-8A8 or Marantz SR-7015 is a bit out of my price range at the moment. The folks at both Auro and 2L seem quite confident that FLAC can delivery up to 11.2 channels of Auro-3D.
 

LuvMyQuad

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I'd love to be able to verify it works, but $3000 for a Auro-capable AVR like the Yamaha Aventage RX-8A8 or Marantz SR-7015 is a bit out of my price range at the moment. The folks at both Auro and 2L seem quite confident that FLAC can delivery up to 11.2 channels of Auro-3D.
This is definitely the first time I've heard of this. And i now believe you may be correct. See below.

From xiph.org:

What is the difference between (native) FLAC and Ogg FLAC?
You can think of an audio codec as having two layers. The inside layer is the raw compressed data, and the outside layer is the "container" or "transport layer" that splits and arranges the compressed data in pieces so it can be seeked through, edited, etc.

"Native" FLAC is the compressed FLAC data stored in a very minimalist container, designed to be very efficient at storing single audio streams.

Ogg FLAC is the compressed FLAC data stored in an Ogg container. Ogg is a much more powerful transport layer that enables mixing several kinds of different streams (audio, data, metadata, etc). The overhead is slightly higher than with native FLAC.

In either case, the compressed FLAC data is the same and one can be converted to the other without re-encoding.

Which should I use, (native) FLAC or Ogg FLAC?
The short answer right now is probably "native FLAC". If all you are doing is compressing audio to be played back later, native FLAC will do everything you need, is more widely supported, and will yield smaller files. If you plan to edit the compressed audio, or want to multiplex the audio with video later in an Ogg container, Ogg FLAC is a better choice.
 

dabl

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Atmos MP4 = E-AC3 (Dolby Digital Plus) @768 kbps (same as streaming)
Atmos MKV = 48/24 MLP (Dolby TrueHD) (same as Blu-Ray disc)
...
Expect much of the lossy MP4 Atmos content on the site to be updated to lossless MKV over the next few weeks.
Good for you guys, that's fantastic news, congratulations!

Hope you advertise that.
 
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