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DVD/DTS Poll Caravan - In The Land Of Grey And Pink (Steven Wilson 5.1 Mix) [DD DVD+2CD]

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Rate the Audio-DVD of Caravan - IN THE LAND OF GREY AND PINK


  • Total voters
    59

ssully

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re: Dolby Digital/AC3

frequency band:
There is no "16kHz cutoff"

e.g., left channel, Britney Spears 'Toxic', decoded from .ac3:
1563992497273.png



Dialnorm:
All DD encodes have a dialnorm value in metadata, it is mandatory. It is meant to 'normalize' overall playback level *between different Dolby Digital sources* so that dialogue levels are the same 'comfortable' level for all those sources. Again, dialnorm adjusts overall level, not just the dialogue/center channel. It considers a dialogue level -31dBfs below digital peak (0dBfs, the loudest you can go), as 'ideal' for home playback, and a dialnorm value is programmed in to a DVD as DD stream metadata to 'tell' the decoder how loud its dialogue is. Most commonly for DVDs, that is a dialnorm value of -27, which means that the movie soundtrack has been mixed so that dialogue levels are 4dB (31-27=4) louder than 'ideal', reflecting cinema reference standards but considered louder than 'ideal' for home. Thus the decoder will reduce volume on all channels by 4dB for this program, so everything stays in balance but the dialogue is not 'too loud' for home playback. Meanwhile, a Dolby-encoded TV broadcast stream might have a dialnorm value of -20, so it will be attenuated by -11 dB (31-20=11) by your decoder, to keep the dialogue level at the 'target'. When switching between these two Dolby sources, the perceived dialogue level will be the same (-31 dB fs) , ie.., it won't suddenly sound a lot louder when you go from DVD to TV (-27dbfs -->-20dbfs). That's the point of dialnorm.

tl;dr: it is equivalent to turning the volume knob down on your AVR, nothing more. You are free to adjust the volume back upward by whatever amount suits you if the idea bothers you.

NB1: since DTS encodes do NOT use dialnorm, they typically will NOT be level matched to the equivalent DD encode, upon playback. They may well be louder. (However, to complicate matters, some THX-certified AVRs automatically applied -4dB to DTS sources, in an attempt to even the playing field). This makes it difficult to compare DD to DTS *fairly* by 'trusting your ears'.

NB2: dialnorm of -27 is common for DD movie soundtracks on DVD. For DD content on music discs, e.g., it can be different. A dialnorm of -31 means no level adjustment is done on decode. Typically the AVR receiving a DD bitstream can be made to display the dialnorm value, although my Denon only does it briefly, at the start of a DD program.

NB4: dialnorm is also used for Dolby's Dynamic Range Control (DRC) function, which is an *optional* function. If present, it may be on or off by default in your device, and thus it is worth checking.
 
Last edited:

fredblue

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re: Dolby Digital/AC3

frequency band:
There is no "16kHz cutoff"

e.g., left channel, Britney Spears 'Toxic', decoded from .ac3:
View attachment 42009


Dialnorm:
All DD encodes have a dialnorm value in metadata, it is mandatory. It is meant to 'normalize' overall playback level *between different Dolby Digital sources* so that dialogue levels are the same 'comfortable' level for all those sources. Again, dialnorm adjusts overall level, not just the dialogue/center channel. It considers a dialogue level -31dBfs below digital peak (0dBfs, the loudest you can go), as 'ideal' for home playback, and a dialnorm value is programmed in to a DVD as DD stream metadata to 'tell' the decoder how loud its dialogue is. Most commonly for DVDs, that is a dialnorm value of -27, which means that the movie soundtrack has been mixed so that dialogue levels are 4dB (31-27=4) louder than 'ideal', reflecting cinema reference standards but considered louder than 'ideal' for home. Thus the decoder will reduce volume on all channels by 4dB for this program, so everything stays in balance but the dialogue is not 'too loud' for home playback. Meanwhile, a Dolby-encoded TV broadcast stream might have a dialnorm value of -20, so it will be attenuated by -11 dB (31-20=11) by your decoder, to keep the dialogue level at the 'target'. When switching between these two Dolby sources, the perceived dialogue level will be the same (-31 dB fs) , ie.., it won't suddenly sound a lot louder when you go from DVD to TV (-27dbfs -->-20dbfs). That's the point of dialnorm.

tl;dr: it is equivalent to turning the volume knob down on your AVR, nothing more. You are free to adjust the volume back upward by whatever amount suits you if the idea bothers you.

NB1: since DTS encodes do NOT use dialnorm, they typically will NOT be level matched to the equivalent DD encode, upon playback. They may well be louder. (However, to complicate matters, some THX-certified AVRs automatically applied -4dB to DTS sources, in an attempt to even the playing field). This makes it difficult to compare DD to DTS *fairly* by 'trusting your ears'.

NB2: dialnorm of -27 is common for DD movie soundtracks on DVD. For DD content on music discs, e.g., it can be different. A dialnorm of -31 means no level adjustment is done on decode. Typically the AVR receiving a DD bitstream can be made to display the dialnorm value, although my Denon only does it briefly, at the start of a DD program.

NB4: dialnorm is also used for Dolby's Dynamic Range Control (DRC) function, which is an *optional* function. If present, it may be on or off by default in your device, and thus it is worth checking.
oops.. its Dolby Surround that has a frequency dropoff.

what was NB3?
 

ssully

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The *original* Dolby Surround (where the surround channels were mono) had a 7khz frequency limit for surrounds.

The 'plain' 'Dolby Pro Logic' was also band limited.

DPLII was/is full-range (for Music and Movie modes at least)

I expect the modern DSU (Dolby Surround Upmixer) is too.

NB3 was sacked. ;>
 

fredblue

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The *original* Dolby Surround (where the surround channels were mono) had a 7khz frequency limit for surrounds.

The 'plain' 'Dolby Pro Logic' was also band limited.

DPLII was/is full-range (for Music and Movie modes at least)

I expect the modern DSU (Dolby Surround Upmixer) is too.

NB3 was sacked. ;>
ah, there you go! never let a juicy bit of gossip get in the way of the facts! 😋

it lacked dynamic range! NB3 must've been evil AC3! :phones
 

Plan9

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I believe it was the "prosumer" AC3 encoder that had the 16kHz cut-off. I certainly saw it on the encodes I did for my personal use long ago. Or maybe it also depends on the material?
 

Chris Gerhard

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Although I am sure I would have preferred this mix with MLP or SACD, probably even DTS 96kHz/24-bit, this is an absolute bullseye as is. Great album, great mix and shows just how good standard Dolby Digital can be. I knew nothing about this album before buying it on CD in 2018, then I had to have it in surround when I saw it was available. A solid 9, better than 75% of surround discs I own, regardless of format. As usual when I find a new to me album I love, it will be something I missed decades ago. I am on the hunt now for other Caravan albums on CD.`
 

jefe1

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This sounds great. I love this music and dolby or not I am happy with the sound. And the mix
When this came out Neil said he heard the high resolution version which smoked this Dolby version but that is hard to believe
This is highly reccomended now a little pricey but worth it.
 

Plan9

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This sounds great. I love this music and dolby or not I am happy with the sound. And the mix
When this came out Neil said he heard the high resolution version which smoked this Dolby version but that is hard to believe
This is highly reccomended now a little pricey but worth it.
The lossless version is really that much better.
 
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