Catch-up mode: Vinyl hardware?

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keshlam4

New member
Joined
Mar 14, 2023
Messages
4
Location
Massachusetts
I've had a theoretically quad-capable analog system (Onkyo TS-DX474) for decades, and am finally getting hooked up again with converters to bridge to and from HDMI.

I have no idea whether it has built-in deciding for quad vinyl or not -- I can probably look that up -- and if not I could use some advice on what, if anything, is available and recommended. I'm also not sure what's required in the turntable itself to support that, if anything. It *would* be nice to hear Switched On Bach in the format it was originally composed for...

Is there a summary document available that I should start with, rather than searching through past posts?
 
I've had a theoretically quad-capable analog system (Onkyo TS-DX474) for decades, and am finally getting hooked up again with converters to bridge to and from HDMI.

I have no idea whether it has built-in deciding for quad vinyl or not -- I can probably look that up -- and if not I could use some advice on what, if anything, is available and recommended. I'm also not sure what's required in the turntable itself to support that, if anything. It *would* be nice to hear Switched On Bach in the format it was originally composed for...

Is there a summary document available that I should start with, rather than searching through past posts?
I suppose I should add that I appreciate good sound but I am not an audiophile; I don't want to get into the search for perfection when I will never have an environment that justifies it. So I just need a solution that sounds good and is relatively affordable and easy to set up, not the ultimate or anything approaching it.

My attitude can be summed up by Mad Magazine's take on the subject, to the tune of No Business Like Show Business:

... I don't like to brag how good my speakers are
But when I turn the sound up real far
I can hear the dandruff fall from Ringo Star
That's why I've got hi-fi!

I'm an occasional sound tech, but I do *not* need to hear and quibble about all the defects in the mix -- I just want to enjoy the album.
 
Someone more knowledgable should be along shortly: but if that Onkyo has Dolby Pro Logic II surround, it should be able to decode matrix surround records into 4ch.

If you search for "matrix" here it will bring up some links & info. There is also CD4 discrete surround on vinyl, but you need specialized gear to decode it.

At lot of us are using the Surroundmaster to decode matrix surround LP's, it works great & is a new product from Involve, who have their own sub forum here.
 
Someone more knowledgable should be along shortly: but if that Onkyo has Dolby Pro Logic II surround, it should be able to decode matrix surround records into 4ch.

If you search for "matrix" here it will bring up some links & info. There is also CD4 discrete surround on vinyl, but you need specialized gear to decode it.

At lot of us are using the Surroundmaster to decode matrix surround LP's, it works great & is a new product from Involve, who have their own sub forum here.
That receiver has discrete inputs so you could hook up a matrix decoder for vintage quad. Aside from vintage decoders there is the Involve Surround Master, it does Involve (QS) as well as SQ. There are many posts and links about it on this site. I think that they still offer a discount to QQ members as well.

You could use the built in Dolby Pro Logic decoder as well or instead. I personally don't care for Dolby decoding but others swear by it. You should try it as a first step as it is already built in and so won't cost you anything!

CD-4 is an exercise in frustration! Good results can be achieved but at great effort and expense.
 
Welcome to the QQ!

I agree with everything @par4ken mentioned above (not a big fan especially of Dolby Pro Logic except for certain other applications, aka- for me I like it for TV dialog only.)

Here's a thread about the newest Involve Surround Master v3:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...aster-v3-has-landed-news-discounts-etc.31449/
and if you're interested you can PM @chucky3042 and he'll be glad I'm sure to hook you up with one.

also, yes the Surround Master does QS and SQ which is what the Switched on Bach LP decodes with (SQ):

https://www.discogs.com/release/1046073-Walter-Carlos-Switched-On-Bach
 
Sadly, the Involve Sound Master is still out of stock, although the ā€œQ1, 2023ā€ seems like it ought to be back soon. There are often decent used decoders for sale through various on-line sites like ebay and craigslist, and antique stores have the occasional treasure. Just donā€™t pay $1000 for $700 worth of functionality.
 
What you need:

- A turntable
- A pickup cartridge - must be a special kind if you want CD-4
- A phono input on your preamp or receiver that matches the type of pickup cartridge you have. The CD-4 cartridge requires a CD-4 demodulator.
- One or more matrix decoders for the various kinds of matrix decoders you have.
- A surround amplifier that can take the output of your matrix decoder(s)

There are several kinds of matrix decoders:
- RM - regular matrix. This includes Hafler diamond, Dynaquad, Stereo-4, QX, Sansui QS, Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic I and II, and surround master (QS).
- SQ - various SQ decoders.
- Universal - EV universal plays both SQ and QS without adjustment
- Switchable decoder RM and SQ.
- UMX/BMX/UD4 - mostly available fronm Denon - rare,
- H - very rare
- UHJ ambisonic - rare.

Dolby surround might be built into the receiver.
 
What you need:

- A turntable
- A pickup cartridge - must be a special kind if you want CD-4
- A phono input on your preamp or receiver that matches the type of pickup cartridge you have. The CD-4 cartridge requires a CD-4 demodulator.
- One or more matrix decoders for the various kinds of matrix decoders you have.
- A surround amplifier that can take the output of your matrix decoder(s)

There are several kinds of matrix decoders:
- RM - regular matrix. This includes Hafler diamond, Dynaquad, Stereo-4, QX, Sansui QS, Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic I and II, and surround master (QS).
- SQ - various SQ decoders.
- Universal - EV universal plays both SQ and QS without adjustment
- Switchable decoder RM and SQ.
- UMX/BMX/UD4 - mostly available fronm Denon - rare,
- H - very rare
- UHJ ambisonic - rare.

Dolby surround might be built into the receiver.

What you need:

- A turntable
- A pickup cartridge - must be a special kind if you want CD-4
- A phono input on your preamp or receiver that matches the type of pickup cartridge you have. The CD-4 cartridge requires a CD-4 demodulator.
- One or more matrix decoders for the various kinds of matrix decoders you have.
- A surround amplifier that can take the output of your matrix decoder(s)

There are several kinds of matrix decoders:
- RM - regular matrix. This includes Hafler diamond, Dynaquad, Stereo-4, QX, Sansui QS, Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic I and II, and surround master (QS).
- SQ - various SQ decoders.
- Universal - EV universal plays both SQ and QS without adjustment
- Switchable decoder RM and SQ.
- UMX/BMX/UD4 - mostly available fronm Denon - rare,
- H - very rare
- UHJ ambisonic - rare.

Dolby surround might be built into the receiver.
The EV "universal" decoder, as you mentioned, plays EV-4, QS, and SQ, but none of them accurately. It was designed to be a "compromise" unit, soon after SQ was introduced. If someone wants accurate decoding of these formats (all RM formats, plus SQ), it's worth waiting for the Surround Master v.3 to become available again. It does all of those formats correctly, and does a bang-up job of creating surround from stereo sources.
 
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