Comments Inspired by Yello - POINT [Blu-ray Audio]

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himey

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It's Dolby Digital and DTS plus passthrough.
Then the Technics isn't using the 7.1/Atmos. There is a seperate track on the disc that takes over for older systems. Check out the Gimme Some Truth thread. The additional DD track is an entirely different mix from the Atmos/7.1 mix. You aren't downmixing the Atmos to 5.1 with the Carver setup.
 

MagnumX

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Then the Technics isn't using the 7.1/Atmos. There is a seperate track on the disc that takes over for older systems. Check out the Gimme Some Truth thread. The additional DD track is an entirely different mix from the Atmos/7.1 mix. You aren't downmixing the Atmos to 5.1 with the Carver setup.
They're not actually truly separate in the sense that the TrueHD "base" 7.1 track is the same bed level track for Atmos too. The Atmos meta data actually cancels out the parts of the track (using phase reversal) and replaces them at the new speakers (most commonly overhead speakers, but with larger speaker systems that can mean any location in the room). In other words, the meta Atmos data is not the entire soundtrack, only the parts that differ from the base TrueHD track. That is why the soundtrack doesn't take up over 2x the data as it's more of an addendum than an entirely separate track.

There is a Core Dolby Digital EX track (non-discrete steered 6.1) included and Handbrake can separate that track into its own selectable track (many actual BD players only let the core track be used if you can't use TrueHD or Atmos, but KODI will then let you select all three separately. KODI can also make its OWN Dolby Digital 5.1 downmix (KODI has a Dolby Digital encoder included with it, which can also turn DTS into DD, etc.) from the 7.1 TrueHD/Atmos track instead of using the core one. That is the track I'm using with KODI on the Carver system, not the 'core' DD track. The technics decoder will play it on the Carver based system in 4.1 or I can have it downmix that version into stereo instead. I'm saying that "stereo" mix sounds eerily similar in many aspects to the 4.1 or (downstairs) the Atmos version. It tries very hard to put sounds behind me or at least closer to me while the separately PCM 24-bit Stereo track that's included is utterly different. That is the "Boris" stereo mix that as used at 16/44.1 on the CD.

Creating a stereo downmix of the 7.1 TrueHD track sounds very different indeed, which is what I was trying to get across as it's closer to something like Q-Sound in its ability to place imaging well outside the "normal" bounds of stereo. In that sense, I'm saying that I think the stereo downmix of the 7.1 TrueHD track is superior (IMO) to the original stereo mix meant for CDs as it's far more adventurous and moves sounds around a lot more even in the mere stereo rendition of it. It makes me think Stereo mixes could be a lot better even for regular old CDs, but then I kind of figured that from albums like Roger Waters' Amused To Death in Q-Sound that could place sounds in "surround" locations from just a stereo signal. Roger didn't generally use music in those location, though, just sound effects whereas the stereo downmix of the 7.1 track does have music in those locations.
 

MagnumX

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Interestingly, the home theater system didn't sound as 3D with its downmix of the TrueHD track into stereo as the Carvers. I thought it might be Sonic Holography making the difference, but it was still doing it on the Carvers with that turned off. I'm now wondering if KODI was doing the downmix differently than the receiver as I let the receiver handle it in the home theater. I'll have to test that next.
 

Titch

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Here's the thing: the Point blu-ray was originally released in one of these super-duper deluxe boxes packed with just about every multimedia format available (well, not 8-track cartridges) on 28 August 2020. It cost €58.99 ($70) and sold out before anyone could bat an eyelid. No-one realised that there was a humdinger of a multichannel blu-ray audio buried in there. And then, one bright spark decides to release the blu-ray audio SEPERATELY, in a normal, CD-sized jewel case, just before Christmas. And - lo and behold - the thing gets rave reviews, starts selling like hot cakes and rockets to the top of the HiRez poll in record time!

So, why, in the name of all that is holy, can't other publishers of exorbitantly priced, long-sold out, super-duper, deluxe massive boxes of junk, realise that we don't want the vinyl, we don't want the CD outtakes, we don't want the postcards: WE WANT THE MULTICHANNEL MIX! It's not hard to do. You've made a lovely SACD multichannel mix of Gene Clark's No Other. Release it and charge €30 a pop. It'll sell. Goldfrapp's multichannel DTS DVD in Tales Of Us is also lost without trace after the humongous £65 box set sold out. And there are plenty of others. You'll make your money back, all the hard work's been done, after all. Ask Dieter Meier, if you don't believe me. He's made a fortune during his lifetime.
 

ArTourter

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Here's the thing: the Point blu-ray was originally released in one of these super-duper deluxe boxes packed with just about every multimedia format available (well, not 8-track cartridges) on 28 August 2020. It cost €58.99 ($70) and sold out before anyone could bat an eyelid. No-one realised that there was a humdinger of a multichannel blu-ray audio buried in there. And then, one bright spark decides to release the blu-ray audio SEPERATELY, in a normal, CD-sized jewel case, just before Christmas. And - lo and behold - the thing gets rave reviews, starts selling like hot cakes and rockets to the top of the HiRez poll in record time!

So, why, in the name of all that is holy, can't other publishers of exorbitantly priced, long-sold out, super-duper, deluxe massive boxes of junk, realise that we don't want the vinyl, we don't want the CD outtakes, we don't want the postcards: WE WANT THE MULTICHANNEL MIX! It's not hard to do. You've made a lovely SACD multichannel mix of Gene Clark's No Other. Release it and charge €30 a pop. It'll sell. Goldfrapp's multichannel DTS DVD in Tales Of Us is also lost without trace after the humongous £65 box set sold out. And there are plenty of others. You'll make your money back, all the hard work's been done, after all. Ask Dieter Meier, if you don't believe me. He's made a fortune during his lifetime.
I don't think that the atmos blu-ray was actually part of the deluxe box. There is a blu-ray in the box but it is the live at Montreux Jazz Festival concert from 2017 (same as the DVD-V in the same box), not the actual album, I think.
 

Titch

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I don't think that the atmos blu-ray was actually part of the deluxe box. There is a blu-ray in the box but it is the live at Montreux Jazz Festival concert from 2017 (same as the DVD-V in the same box), not the actual album, I think.
Ah - thanks for correcting me! But I still think that the music companies would not do too badly, if they released their multichannel discs, buried in huge boxes, as stand alone discs. It's extremely rare for them to do so. Alan Parker Project's Eye In The Sky is the only one I can recall in recent years. I have nowhere to store enormous boxes. I don't want anything apart from the multichannel mix. I'm sure there are plenty others like myself.
 

MagnumX

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The simple answer is that the Atmos mix was done by an outside company (same one that Booka Shade used) and it wasn't ready in time for the box set with Covid going on etc. They're just two guys so there might have been a waiting list?
 

efb18

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Ah - thanks for correcting me! But I still think that the music companies would not do too badly, if they released their multichannel discs, buried in huge boxes, as stand alone discs. It's extremely rare for them to do so. Alan Parker Project's Eye In The Sky is the only one I can recall in recent years. I have nowhere to store enormous boxes. I don't want anything apart from the multichannel mix. I'm sure there are plenty others like myself.
Yeah, I totally agree. I get the surround disk out, put it in an empty CD case to put with the rest of my disks, and store the big bulky box set in my bookcase. It's very unsatisfying.

My recent examples of pointless (pointless to me, anyway) big bulky boxsets:
Ultravox - Vienna
Opeth - In causa venenum
Devin Townsend - Empath
Tangerine Dream - In search of Hades

Of recently released disks, if I'm not mistaken, Chris Squire's "Fish out of water" also comes to mind as one released as both a box set and a standalone Blu-ray. I got the standalone Blu-ray.
 

Titch

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Yeah, I totally agree. I get the surround disk out, put it in an empty CD case to put with the rest of my disks, and store the big bulky box set in my bookcase. It's very unsatisfying.

My recent examples of pointless (pointless to me, anyway) big bulky boxsets:
Ultravox - Vienna
Opeth - In causa venenum
Devin Townsend - Empath
Tangerine Dream - In search of Hades

Of recently released disks, if I'm not mistaken, Chris Squire's "Fish out of water" also comes to mind as one released as both a box set and a standalone Blu-ray. I got the standalone Blu-ray.
I've held off buying the Beatle's White Album and Abbey Road boxes, because I simply don't want anymore collector's boxes. I suppose a solution is to just buy a used copy off Discogs and ask the seller to only send the blu-ray.
 

MagnumX

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As nearly everyone has remarked, the Atmos mix on Point is one of the absolute best I have heard - an easy 10 for the mix regardless of what you may think of the music. With Point I currently I have 10 Atmos releases on disc (Beatles AR, Rhapsody - Prometheus, Schiller - Morgenstund, Booka Shade - both recent titles, Kraftwerk 3-D, Metallica - TTN 3D, KC ITCTCK -1969 box, and TFB). All of these are very good, but so far the Booka Shade titles and Point are at the top of the list and are most demo worthy for my 7.2.4 speaker setup. Opinions on music will always differ, but even though Yello is not my favorite type of music I find that the aggressive Atmos mix enhances the wow and fun factor enormously, on every track, far beyond what you might expect if you are not a fan. Highly recommended.
I'd check out Lichtmond - The Journey in Atmos if you haven't heard it yet. It's almost as good as the Booka Shade and Yello albums in terms of the mix, but perhaps not the music (subjective). You can also get it with 3D visuals (spacey themed stuff).
 

Titch

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Any time a new release gets this sort of reception I generally buy it. This one will take a few more spins.
I'm the same. I had three Yello CDs from the dawn of the CD era and then I obviously decided I was going to spend my hard earned cash on '80's Europop, Prince and Madonna. So it was only after reading on this forum how gaga people were about Point, that I went back to Yello again. It's even got me listening to the old Yello albums I haven't listened to in decades.
 

Lord British

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I'd check out Lichtmond - The Journey in Atmos if you haven't heard it yet. It's almost as good as the Booka Shade and Yello albums in terms of the mix, but perhaps not the music (subjective). You can also get it with 3D visuals (spacey themed stuff).
Oooh, this stuff is right up my alley. Checking it out now on Amazon. Thanks for the rec!
 

birrrdy!

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I'm a little late to this thread, and I probably missed all of the less expensive ways to buy the Atmos release. Despite a reasonable unit price, the official Yello and PureAudio websites wanted to charge 30-35 Euros for shipping to the U.S. Amazon U.S. had sellers around the $70+ price point, and ebay around $60-70. In case anyone needs it, here's the link to the Amazon Germany website that at least only charged 16.94 Euros to send stateside. Total all-in price around $51.


Bestellungsübersicht
Artikel:24,28 €
Verpackung & Versand:16,94 €
Gesamtbetrag:41,22 €

Let me know if I missed a better deal out there, or happy shopping at Amazon.de (I just clicked the link again, and the price is now 26,38 €, but they have sellers that look like they are selling for 21,99 € if you click through).

Google Translate also invaluable for getting through check-out. But it accepted my U.S. Amazon credentials.
 

MagnumX

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I'm a little late to this thread, and I probably missed all of the less expensive ways to buy the Atmos release. Despite a reasonable unit price, the official Yello and PureAudio websites wanted to charge 30-35 Euros for shipping to the U.S. Amazon U.S. had sellers around the $70+ price point, and ebay around $60-70. In case anyone needs it, here's the link to the Amazon Germany website that at least only charged 16.94 Euros to send stateside. Total all-in price around $51.


Bestellungsübersicht
Artikel:24,28 €
Verpackung & Versand:16,94 €
Gesamtbetrag:41,22 €

Let me know if I missed a better deal out there, or happy shopping at Amazon.de (I just clicked the link again, and the price is now 26,38 €, but they have sellers that look like they are selling for 21,99 € if you click through).

Google Translate also invaluable for getting through check-out. But it accepted my U.S. Amazon credentials.

It was only $32 USD total shipped from jpc.de to the USA.
 

jespitzer

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Jan 19, 2013
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I'm a little late to this thread, and I probably missed all of the less expensive ways to buy the Atmos release. Despite a reasonable unit price, the official Yello and PureAudio websites wanted to charge 30-35 Euros for shipping to the U.S. Amazon U.S. had sellers around the $70+ price point, and ebay around $60-70. In case anyone needs it, here's the link to the Amazon Germany website that at least only charged 16.94 Euros to send stateside. Total all-in price around $51.


Bestellungsübersicht
Artikel:24,28 €
Verpackung & Versand:16,94 €
Gesamtbetrag:41,22 €

Let me know if I missed a better deal out there, or happy shopping at Amazon.de (I just clicked the link again, and the price is now 26,38 €, but they have sellers that look like they are selling for 21,99 € if you click through).

Google Translate also invaluable for getting through check-out. But it accepted my U.S. Amazon credentials.
Worth every penny. Let’s hope they work back through their extensive catalog and release more. Their music is so cinematic that any of their titles would benefit from 5.1 or 7.1 mixes.
 
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