trevorspiro
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Deep Purple in CD-4
- Thread starter trevorspiro
- Start date
Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
In UK, EMI Machine Head SQ came out about a year before US WB CD-4. Machine also was later (re) released as UK Quad mix on UK SACD surround & in Machine Head 4 CD/DVD-V 2012 UK 40th Anniv. box (mixed to 4.1):
https://www.discogs.com/release/3960500-Deep-Purple-Machine-Head
These are all the same mix. In addition, some SQ encoded tracks were bonus tracks on UK 2 CD expanded:
https://www.discogs.com/release/7257622-Deep-Purple-Machine-Head
WB CD-4 is a different mix from UK SQ.
MH was also released on DVD-A (US WB DVD-surround mix) and on WB Japan SACD. Yet another mix. (edit)
Stormbringer was released on surround DVD-V on UK CD/DVD-V package:
https://www.discogs.com/release/1759400-Deep-Purple-Stormbringer
https://www.discogs.com/release/3960500-Deep-Purple-Machine-Head
These are all the same mix. In addition, some SQ encoded tracks were bonus tracks on UK 2 CD expanded:
https://www.discogs.com/release/7257622-Deep-Purple-Machine-Head
WB CD-4 is a different mix from UK SQ.
MH was also released on DVD-A (US WB DVD-surround mix) and on WB Japan SACD. Yet another mix. (edit)
Stormbringer was released on surround DVD-V on UK CD/DVD-V package:
https://www.discogs.com/release/1759400-Deep-Purple-Stormbringer
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Linda, i knew that the WB Japan SACD is a re-release of the 5.1 mix done in 2000 for the DVD-Audio launch, not the original US WB CD4 mix. Will love to be wrong...
Actually, you are correct. It IS the DVD-A mix, not the earlier CD-4 mix.
I purposely didn't mention the DVD-A for simplification.
DVD-A is my favorite surround mix. SQ is my most played Quad, having owned it since '73. My first and only copy pre-CD.
I stand corrected.
meaning also, the US quad mix has never been formally released in digital.
Don't forget that the CD-4 version was released on quad reel as well. Does anyone know what the differences in the mixes are? While I have heard both versions numerous times I don't know/recall just how they differ. I have never compared them back to back.
They are very different. The European quad mix has the drums & bass upfront and the rhythm guitar & organ hard-panned in the back corners. The US quad mix has the bass in the back and drum kit filling up all the speakers, with the rhythm guitar & organ usually in the front corners. I would love to hear a professional remaster of the US quad mix, every conversion of the CD-4 LP and quad reel I've heard sounds very muddy.
The CD-4 version sounds more like my kind of mix!
Apparently all the Stereotape releases were dubbed at high speed which would explain why reels from both Ampex and Vanguard sounded so much better. Sadly no Ampex release of Deep Purple
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Not only are the mixes different spatially, there are parts missing or audible on some mixes and not others.
Most notably, there's a whole section of guitar lead missing from 'Lazy' about 6 min in, on the UK/Euro quad.
(IIRC was there also some issue with the channel assignment of the digital UK? -- my folder is called 'SACD 4.0 corrected' for some reason, I'm sure )
Agreed about the relative sound quality ('muddy' vs clean) of the available US vs UK. It would be nice to hear a proper transfer of the US quad from master tapes, to tell how much of that is due to transfer quality versus simple mix choices. What's out there for the US quad in trading circles is not great, sq-wise.
Most notably, there's a whole section of guitar lead missing from 'Lazy' about 6 min in, on the UK/Euro quad.
(IIRC was there also some issue with the channel assignment of the digital UK? -- my folder is called 'SACD 4.0 corrected' for some reason, I'm sure )
Agreed about the relative sound quality ('muddy' vs clean) of the available US vs UK. It would be nice to hear a proper transfer of the US quad from master tapes, to tell how much of that is due to transfer quality versus simple mix choices. What's out there for the US quad in trading circles is not great, sq-wise.
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EMI (Purple Records) did the UK mix. It was their recording to begin with.
WB (US label) was likely working off a later generation copy. That might account for SOME, not all of the added mud.
Also, most everyone listens to these titles on conversions. I've rarely heard any conversions. Have been listening to the original pressings/releases for 50-ish years. Conversions are blessed. Thanks to everyone who expended the effort.
Please realize that you're listening to LP wear, phono cartridge, TT speed (in)consistency and other issues when converted from vinyl. Have been using variations on the same MC cartridge for 45 years. Few conversions utilize something of that ilk. No offense intended.
Head wear, frequency response, speed variations, dropouts, tape wear, damage and a host of other issues on analog tape. Not only commercially duplicated, but master tapes and later generation copies are all subject to deterioration.
You're listening to all these factors and more combined. Your room acoustics, speakers, etc. all can add and/or detract, and make things sound amiss. Yes, the master tape is often the solution to some of these issues. Keeps me buying BD's & SACD's of old Quad titles I own. $$$
WB (US label) was likely working off a later generation copy. That might account for SOME, not all of the added mud.
Also, most everyone listens to these titles on conversions. I've rarely heard any conversions. Have been listening to the original pressings/releases for 50-ish years. Conversions are blessed. Thanks to everyone who expended the effort.
Please realize that you're listening to LP wear, phono cartridge, TT speed (in)consistency and other issues when converted from vinyl. Have been using variations on the same MC cartridge for 45 years. Few conversions utilize something of that ilk. No offense intended.
Head wear, frequency response, speed variations, dropouts, tape wear, damage and a host of other issues on analog tape. Not only commercially duplicated, but master tapes and later generation copies are all subject to deterioration.
You're listening to all these factors and more combined. Your room acoustics, speakers, etc. all can add and/or detract, and make things sound amiss. Yes, the master tape is often the solution to some of these issues. Keeps me buying BD's & SACD's of old Quad titles I own. $$$
My digital copy of the US mix purports to be sourced from a quad RTR. Assuming there was proper hardware setup, that's the best analog source I can think of.
Are we sure that the UK mix was done first? If not - I could understand EMI wanting a unique quad remix tailored for matrix playback, as the US version is definitely not optimized for SQ (the bass guitar in 'rear center' would cancel out on mono playback of the LP). But if the UK quad was indeed created first, you'd think EMI would have just sent their 1/2-inch 4-track master over to WB in the US to cut the CD-4 LP (similar to how some of CTI's 'mixed for SQ' discrete quad masters were sent to King Records in Japan for CD-4 replication) rather than run off copies of the entire multitrack for another remix. It is definitely one of the weird oddities of the quad era, I think this and Tubular Bells are the only titles that received unique quad mixes for different territories.
I owned UK SQ a year or more before CD-4 was released. I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that was mixed first.
WB could have begun theirs first, though it's more likely they began at the same time. Possibly UK mix was begun first, though not completed when WB began theirs. Or, WB heard EMI mix and decided they could do better...
Likely I missed a few scenarios.
IMHO, I prefer DVD-A overall.
WB could have begun theirs first, though it's more likely they began at the same time. Possibly UK mix was begun first, though not completed when WB began theirs. Or, WB heard EMI mix and decided they could do better...
Likely I missed a few scenarios.
IMHO, I prefer DVD-A overall.
Although a sidebar here, CD-4 Tubular Bells is more of a quasi-Quad mix. UK SQ w/for people with four ears sticker (lol!) is the real Quad mix, as is the multi SACD.
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WB released MH in quad later; UK quad was the first mix and i can't understand why they cut off a section of Lazy that was present on the stereo, then on the quad, then on all the remixes done, stereo and mch, time and again until now. Probably for that reason, and also to have some bass action on the rear - perfect for the car with Q8 players - they redid the mix.
Owen Smith
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
The Machine Head SACD has the rear channels swapped left/right compared to the SQ. The correction undid that.
Thanks!
Never heard the SACD multi (UK Quad mix). It seemed like something I didn't need. Own 2 copies of that mix already, plus a few SQ encoded tracks on Anniv. CD. Glad I didn't invest in that one.
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