"Digitally Extracted Stereo"

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himey

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One big difference: I've never seen colorization/colourisation that looked completely natural and didn't draw attention to itself. The mono to stereo process(es?) we're talking about here result in songs that sound exactly like they were mixed in stereo from the beginning.
How would you know they sound like exactly the same as if they were mixed in stereo if there was never a stereo mix? Maybe I am missing something but that makes no sense. ...I am not judging the process, only attempting to make sense of your claim.
 

atrocity

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How would you know they sound like exactly the same as if they were mixed in stereo if there was never a stereo mix? Maybe I am missing something but that makes no sense. ...I am not judging the process, only attempting to make sense of your claim.
I mean that they simply sound like genuine stereo mixes. There are--for me, anyway--no audible clues that I'm listening to anything other than a true stereo recording.

I've read complaints about some songs that don't work perfectly but have yet to hear any of them personally.

I suppose there's a complaint to be made that the upmixes sound modern and non-gimmicky, while had they been mixed to stereo when they were new there'd probably be a lot more extreme separation.

Comparing it again to colorization, it seems like there are almost always visible clues if you look for them. When I listen to these stereo upmixes, I'm desperately and nerdily really trying to hear the audio version of those clues and I just can't. It just works.
 

himey

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I mean that they simply sound like genuine stereo mixes. There are--for me, anyway--no audible clues that I'm listening to anything other than a true stereo recording.

I've read complaints about some songs that don't work perfectly but have yet to hear any of them personally.

I suppose there's a complaint to be made that the upmixes sound modern and non-gimmicky, while had they been mixed to stereo when they were new there'd probably be a lot more extreme separation.

Comparing it again to colorization, it seems like there are almost always visible clues if you look for them. When I listen to these stereo upmixes, I'm desperately and nerdily really trying to hear the audio version of those clues and I just can't. It just works.
Upmixing in general is hit and miss from my experience. Some are really good but the majority are poor.
 

Soundfield

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You obviously missed the point about still being able to listen to the original mono mix, it isn't going anywhere unlike your poor analogy.
au contrair, the faux arms will be hinged so as to be readily swung out of view, although the 'restoration' will be so aesthetically pleasing that I doubt anyone will want to.
 

himey

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au contrair, the faux arms will be hinged so as to be readily swung out of view, although the 'restoration' will be so aesthetically pleasing that I doubt anyone will want to.
I prefer the mono Piper at The Gates of Dawn using four large speakers so what do I know...
 

ar surround

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I must give props to Eric Records and their mixing/mastering/DES engineers. I was fooling around on Youtube looking for a stereo mix of Green Onions...probably my favorite instrumental of all time. I came across the DES version that is available on Eric Records (Complete Pop Instrumental Hits of The 60's Vol 3: 1962.) I bought the set and was blown away by Green Onions in faux 7.1. It seems that the DES process incorporates a good amount of out-of-phase information into the new mixes which ambience extraction systems (PLIIx, L7, etc.) thrive on.

As far as the results of songs reworked into DES, I'd say that only very few aren't so hot, 80% are good to very good, but 15 to 20% are spectacular. And I must say that the stereo mixes sound like unfolded versions of the mono...or should I say true-to-the mono versions.

Another fascinating track is The Chordettes Lollipop. On this particular track, they were able to somehow separate the female vocals and place some of them in the center and others in the right. I still can't stand the bubblegum schlockiness of this song but...Oh no, earworm alert!


Eric Records' mastering of true stereo recordings is also excellent. So I've been buying up their other CD's. I have 21 right now and they have all been worth it. I have become so fascinated with these DES (and recently discovered true stereo tracks) of music from the 50's and 60's that I've spent virtually all my listening time of the past several weeks with these Eric Records CD's.
 

monotoSTEREO

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Here are a couple of my favorites...

Not only is this song presented in wide, clean stereo but the two Kalin Twins are presented side by side!


This 1957 #1 hit now sounds wonderful in stereo!...


Of course, this same technology can be used for upmixing stereo to surround!
 

billtkd

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Eric is also very good about noting what tracks are DES.
Not any more. I asked why they didn't indicate this on their new 'Stereo Explosion' releases and got this reply:
"Our state-of-the-art stereo sound has reached the point where we gave up distinguishing between DES and studio-created stereo.​
Stereo is stereo! In many cases the new stereo is better than what might have been mixed 60 years ago due to the technical limitations present at that time.​
If YOU can tell the difference, email us a list of tracks as to which is which and we'll let you know how good your guesses are."​

I don't buy that argument but maybe they're fed up with people denigrating their DES versions (often before or in the absence of hearing them).
 

ar surround

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Not any more. I asked why they didn't indicate this on their new 'Stereo Explosion' releases and got this reply:
"Our state-of-the-art stereo sound has reached the point where we gave up distinguishing between DES and studio-created stereo.​
Stereo is stereo! In many cases the new stereo is better than what might have been mixed 60 years ago due to the technical limitations present at that time.​
If YOU can tell the difference, email us a list of tracks as to which is which and we'll let you know how good your guesses are."​

I don't buy that argument but maybe they're fed up with people denigrating their DES versions (often before or in the absence of hearing them).
Ignoring the quality of the sources, which are highly variable, the DES tracks usually have a better stereo spread than “real” stereo tracks from the same era. There are some songs where I wished they had dispensed with the real stereo source and made a DES version from high quality mono.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!
 

billtkd

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There are some songs where I wished they had dispensed with the real stereo source and made a DES version from high quality mono.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!
Thanks for the welcome.
I assume that they (Eric) have also used the same sound source separation technology on some stereo as well as mono masters, to produce better mixes than were previously possible.
Some of the newer releases contain songs that they have already released, but labelled ‘New stereo mix’. Hard to say whether these are new digital extractions from stereo sources or new DES from mono (because the software is improving all the time).
 
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